Hi,
Whilst I agree with the sentiments in the article, I feel that its PC users that have been getting the raw deal as far as game soundtracks are concerned.
Actually, and Final Fantasy is a prime example of this, Console owners are the people reaping the benefits of great composition and post production thats approaching the quality of movies.
In fact pretty much anything Square/Enix churn out has beautiful soundtracks.
Metroid Prime is a another great example. It's got one of those love/hate soundtracks, but regardless of your opinion of the music, more importantly its organic approach oozes atmosphere. Also its a triumph for sound effect design (something that's definately missing from many titles). Everything in the game, every creature and item has a unique and instantly recognisable sound, unless you've heard it, its hard to put forward just how slick it is.
I've just recently picked up Beyond Good and Evil for the PS2 (which I think is now available for the PC). Its soundtrack is fantastic with a mixture of orchestration and world which during some battles progresses as you work towards defeat. I seem to remember quite early on, as I was only a few hits away from killing a boss and the game went into a subtle slow mo as the soundtrack morphed into choruses and chanting. Quite special indeed.
The japanese trend for rhythm action games has also sprouted an ingenious selection of music. Well worth checking are Parappa the Rapper, Guitaroo man and Um Jammy Lammer for comedy value alone.
Also, Zelda Wind Walker, REZ, ICO all have incredible soundtracks, but its a sign of the times that far too many titles resort to buying in big names to adourn their titles - EA being a particular offender.
Mind you, big names do work in some places, Vice City for example. Its 80's radio stations prove that licensing tracks can work if put in the right context. Its a shame that most of the time, publishers just throw in the likes of Feeder or Pink to draw in the punters.
OK, so i'm going on a bit here, but i guess u get my point. Search around, and you'll find some gems in the videogame market.
One last thing, I got Billy Hatcher for the Gamecube last weekend and had my faith in catchy video game music restored once again. If you can hire it, check out the "la la la la la" kids n flutes theme. Marvellous !
tim.
All in the name of progress?
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Chris Abbott
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Tim Forsyth
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Well said tim. I have to agree with you almost everything you have written. Tho i feel maybe your missing the point here. I'm really talking about melodies rather than quality. Some of the big roleplaying games do have Quality soundtracks, but rarely are they melodic. I can't for one second think i'd sit down and listen to Bouldersgate etc as a stand-alone product.
My article is pointing out that music can be enjoyable while also being of a high standard, and also fitting with the games Atmosphere.
If we put the same ideal into films, you can say that james horner titanic theme tune was indeed one of the cases where a real melody shines whilst capturing the atmosphere of a film. You can easily listen to the entire soundtrack on its own and enjoy it. While mostly a film tune just goes for atmosphere and ignores that ideal of a melody.
My article is pointing out that music can be enjoyable while also being of a high standard, and also fitting with the games Atmosphere.
If we put the same ideal into films, you can say that james horner titanic theme tune was indeed one of the cases where a real melody shines whilst capturing the atmosphere of a film. You can easily listen to the entire soundtrack on its own and enjoy it. While mostly a film tune just goes for atmosphere and ignores that ideal of a melody.
You could say the same for his main theme for Braveheart, at least that's what I think...Tas wrote:If we put the same ideal into films, you can say that james horner titanic theme tune was indeed one of the cases where a real melody shines whilst capturing the atmosphere of a film. You can easily listen to the entire soundtrack on its own and enjoy it.
<--- I went that way --->
Neil,Tas wrote:I'm really talking about melodies rather than quality. Some of the big roleplaying games do have Quality soundtracks, but rarely are they melodic. I can't for one second think i'd sit down and listen to Bouldersgate etc as a stand-alone product.
i missed the point of your article. I didn't understand if you're happy
with the "new" music trend or not.
Of course, in times when credits for people involved in a videogames developement compete with the end credits of Return of The King (FF7 is a good example), music has to evolve. Mainly because many today's videogames (and again, the FF series, or, moreover, the whole japanese style videogames) are very tied to a story that has to be told and all the compelling emotions they have to make you feel.
Here you talk about lack of melody in rpgs.
Dunno for baldur gates (played only the ps2 one), but you can't be more wrong if you think (again and again) to Final Fantasy, expecially the 7, 8 and 10. Or Xenogears. Or Xenosaga. Or Chrono Cross, the Lunar Saga and so on.
Bye.
I used FF as mearly an example. i also used a very european game "The journey to the centre of the earth". Generally i'm not happy with the state of affairs but i do notice change. I can't say for sure if FF was responsable for this slight and it is slight shift in change but it seems very possible.
Music has evolved and i agree music does indeed have to evolve, but removing the essence of what is purely enjoyable does not need to be part of that evolution process. The essence of Evolutions actually means Evolve from what is there originally, not change it. Changing the evolution means to turn to a new thing completely which in this case we certainly have done.
What im saying infact that a balance as yet not been found and the return to basics while introducing what is fundementally the most enjoyable part: The melody is now beginning to show signs of a balance. For too long have we had to plough through nothingness all for what we are told to be moving forward.
Music has evolved and i agree music does indeed have to evolve, but removing the essence of what is purely enjoyable does not need to be part of that evolution process. The essence of Evolutions actually means Evolve from what is there originally, not change it. Changing the evolution means to turn to a new thing completely which in this case we certainly have done.
What im saying infact that a balance as yet not been found and the return to basics while introducing what is fundementally the most enjoyable part: The melody is now beginning to show signs of a balance. For too long have we had to plough through nothingness all for what we are told to be moving forward.
If i'm right, you say something like:Tas wrote:What im saying infact that a balance as yet not been found and the return to basics while introducing what is fundementally the most enjoyable part: The melody is now beginning to show signs of a balance. For too long have we had to plough through nothingness all for what we are told to be moving forward.
-In c64 era videogames had strong and unfogettable musics, with a very strong melody line. The same goes for Amiga.
-Todays videogames, with some exceptions (eg: the FF saga, to say one) moved their focus to uninspiring (but more complex) music that leave nothing to the player. Only lately this begins to change.
Am i right?
Sorry, but i must disagree.
The SID archive contains a lot of musical gems, but the 80% of it is pure musical crap. The same goes for Amiga music.
Can't speak much about PC games ranging from 92 to 98 (i wasn't playing pcs at those times), but i can report about PS1 games, and i can affirm the percentages are almost the same.
Except for the fact that is an 80% of crap done with modern technology and/or recording.
But there's still a 20% of gems. And not only on the Square side, but also on the Konami, From Software, Namco (and a lot more) side.
And also, it's not true that pretty much all Sqare releases have great soundtrack. Try get FF X-2, and tell me.
Cheers.
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Tim Forsyth
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Neil,
I think that my reply did miss the point of your article a little (on context), but I do believe that we need to cast the net a lot wider across the various platforms to reach the same ratio of quality against boring, uninspiring soundtracks.
Like you, I often look back and wonder what's happened to video game music over the last 10 years, but I put some of it down to seeing those 64 days through rose tinted specs.
Much of the problem is that composition in video games is still a much overlooked art but I believe this is a curse of the western world. Sure, western development houses up the ante by polishing up their post production skills or licensing talent. But it is the Japansese code shops that have kept the skill of great music composition alive.
With one or two recent exeptions, all the memorable soundtracks over the past few years have all come from Asia pac.
It has been recognised for years in the press. Edge's comment comes to mind about Tim Follin's Ecco the Dolphin. They said that he brought a sense of sensitivity and understanding to the title often ignored by western musicians.
I think that's perhaps one reason why what Rob, Martin, Benn and co. left with has stood the test of time. Very few musicians involved in video games in Europe and the Americas have managed to take over the reigns and produce something memorable and exciting.
Actually, when you look at it, the death of the Amiga pretty much kick started the jittery evolution of game soundtracks.
With the arrival thereafter of CD based machines that could stream audio, the creative drive of melody based soundtracks on limited hardware met its death.
Its a shame, but I am glad there are musicians out there, mainly in Japan that are keeping the spirit alive!
tim
I think that my reply did miss the point of your article a little (on context), but I do believe that we need to cast the net a lot wider across the various platforms to reach the same ratio of quality against boring, uninspiring soundtracks.
Like you, I often look back and wonder what's happened to video game music over the last 10 years, but I put some of it down to seeing those 64 days through rose tinted specs.
Much of the problem is that composition in video games is still a much overlooked art but I believe this is a curse of the western world. Sure, western development houses up the ante by polishing up their post production skills or licensing talent. But it is the Japansese code shops that have kept the skill of great music composition alive.
With one or two recent exeptions, all the memorable soundtracks over the past few years have all come from Asia pac.
It has been recognised for years in the press. Edge's comment comes to mind about Tim Follin's Ecco the Dolphin. They said that he brought a sense of sensitivity and understanding to the title often ignored by western musicians.
I think that's perhaps one reason why what Rob, Martin, Benn and co. left with has stood the test of time. Very few musicians involved in video games in Europe and the Americas have managed to take over the reigns and produce something memorable and exciting.
Actually, when you look at it, the death of the Amiga pretty much kick started the jittery evolution of game soundtracks.
With the arrival thereafter of CD based machines that could stream audio, the creative drive of melody based soundtracks on limited hardware met its death.
Its a shame, but I am glad there are musicians out there, mainly in Japan that are keeping the spirit alive!
tim
Actually Tim. It wasn't until DHS's coments that i realised actually your comements were indeed very relevent to the discussion. I noticed that dhs was indeed listing tracks that were soley Japanese. I'm mainly not familair with most of the japanese games as i have never owned a console. Well not since the Atari 2600 VCS. So it seems maybe us PC/MAC users are getting a rough end of the bargain. Funnily i was playing the sensation Pro Evolution soccer 3 (Kanomi) on the PC just the other day and the music on that probably had the strongest melody i've heard in years and really brought you into the feel of the game.
Interesting to see that these Japanese games are so much better in general and not just in the music dept. Just need to compaire Konami's Pro Evo to EA's FIFA and you see a whole new level on technology and gameplay. EA seem to go with the quick fix approach too by licensing commercial soundtracks which is all good in a way, but EA reciently have brought in these soundtracks that are just rubbish. They prolly hit the nail on the head when they used Robbie Williams on a back version of FIFA, however now they seem to plant any old tune on the game.
So curiously the re-emergence of melodies seem because of the japanese companies taking moves forward and that the rest of the world are beginning to take note, and it seems they better take note too or these giants of japan will take over completely.
Seems to me like a revolution is beginning in the PC market and the reason for this is "JAPAN".
Interesting to see that these Japanese games are so much better in general and not just in the music dept. Just need to compaire Konami's Pro Evo to EA's FIFA and you see a whole new level on technology and gameplay. EA seem to go with the quick fix approach too by licensing commercial soundtracks which is all good in a way, but EA reciently have brought in these soundtracks that are just rubbish. They prolly hit the nail on the head when they used Robbie Williams on a back version of FIFA, however now they seem to plant any old tune on the game.
So curiously the re-emergence of melodies seem because of the japanese companies taking moves forward and that the rest of the world are beginning to take note, and it seems they better take note too or these giants of japan will take over completely.
Seems to me like a revolution is beginning in the PC market and the reason for this is "JAPAN".
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Markus Schneider
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Well, I do agree with DHS. Nothing has changed. There's a lot of crap yesterday, today and tomorrow. And there a strong melodic things, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
It rarely depends on the character who is composing the music, the story, the sense, the producers and so on. The genius ones will do strong melodic things if it fits to the game/film. And even there will be some strong melodic tunes who are well misplaced in the game. Vice versa aswell. Be sure !
Further nothing has changed with composers: There are the 'most wanted' geniuses and the unknown, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Especially EA is known for taking the so-called elite. Michael Giacchino, Bill Brown, Jeremy Soule ... And they do mucho grande melodic and memoryable stuff aswell. And they did it for PC. Some soundtracks I ripped from the game CD like 15 years ago.
Well, regarding film: its a major difference to score for a film or writing an accompaniment. John Williams said once: "If scoring for a film sounds well listened solely, it's an accident." It depends so much on the film that you can't score melodic in every case. It works well on films like Titanic, where a love story rules all the time. It works well when used in leitmotiv works like Star Wars and Indiana Jones (like the grail leitmotiv in part 3).
Listen to Minority Report by Williams and you have 'heavy' stuff, very complex and well done stuff. Regarding this it is really normal not having memoryable tunes here. BUT when listening during the film it's one of the most fitting soundtracks (imho) because it a) gives the right mood and b) it is absolutely conform with the direction of the film which changes a lot into that story. This is the aim of film scoring. I don't talk of writing main titles, which is in most cases no film scoring.
IMHO there are some bad examples by well known composers of melodic scoring. One I can say is 'Pirates' by Klaus Badelt. Well, it is very melodic due to harmonic minor and listening without any pictures is quite pleasant - except that I always forget, while listening, if it's Gladiator, Pirates, Crimson Tide, Pearl Harbor since it all sounds very the same. But I can't help it never gives me any pirate mood during the whole track.
Finally I prefer a supporting soundtrack rather than an own standing one. And if there's a chance to combine both I am very happy too.
Just my 2 cents
It rarely depends on the character who is composing the music, the story, the sense, the producers and so on. The genius ones will do strong melodic things if it fits to the game/film. And even there will be some strong melodic tunes who are well misplaced in the game. Vice versa aswell. Be sure !
Further nothing has changed with composers: There are the 'most wanted' geniuses and the unknown, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Especially EA is known for taking the so-called elite. Michael Giacchino, Bill Brown, Jeremy Soule ... And they do mucho grande melodic and memoryable stuff aswell. And they did it for PC. Some soundtracks I ripped from the game CD like 15 years ago.
Well, regarding film: its a major difference to score for a film or writing an accompaniment. John Williams said once: "If scoring for a film sounds well listened solely, it's an accident." It depends so much on the film that you can't score melodic in every case. It works well on films like Titanic, where a love story rules all the time. It works well when used in leitmotiv works like Star Wars and Indiana Jones (like the grail leitmotiv in part 3).
Listen to Minority Report by Williams and you have 'heavy' stuff, very complex and well done stuff. Regarding this it is really normal not having memoryable tunes here. BUT when listening during the film it's one of the most fitting soundtracks (imho) because it a) gives the right mood and b) it is absolutely conform with the direction of the film which changes a lot into that story. This is the aim of film scoring. I don't talk of writing main titles, which is in most cases no film scoring.
IMHO there are some bad examples by well known composers of melodic scoring. One I can say is 'Pirates' by Klaus Badelt. Well, it is very melodic due to harmonic minor and listening without any pictures is quite pleasant - except that I always forget, while listening, if it's Gladiator, Pirates, Crimson Tide, Pearl Harbor since it all sounds very the same. But I can't help it never gives me any pirate mood during the whole track.
Finally I prefer a supporting soundtrack rather than an own standing one. And if there's a chance to combine both I am very happy too.
Just my 2 cents
Markus