Reason or not to Reason :)

Analog-X64 · Post by **Analog-X64** » 12/02/2004 - 2:14

Hello Everybody,

I've been inactive from this site for a while taking care of life stuff, in the mean time I've been thinking about getting back to composing/remixing I've also thought about re-building my mini Studio with the few RackMount Modules that I have.

Typicaly I would use my Atari 1040STE with Edit Track GOLD a 64 Track Sequencer with Linear/Looping Capability which would use CHAIN List system to assemble the songs out of Tracks/patterns. Very comfortable witih this setup however very limited with hardware that I currently have i.e. Drum Module / 512k 12/6 bit sampler etc..

I have decided that at this point of time it would be more practical to use a Virtual Synth. A friend of mine Demonstrated "Logic" and I found it a bit overwhelming and not something I would want to start with.

I've been thinking about FruityLoops or Reason as with anything new a lot of time needs to be invested with a learning curve.

I'm in no way shape or form talented or close to the expertise of the remixers here, like Marcel Donne, Thomas Deteret, Larse, O2 just to name a few.

So if you could kindly give me a little nudge in the right direction and give me a recommendation as to where to start?

Here are the Specs for the PC that I will be using for this Task.

AMD Athalon XP Barton 2500+ 1.8Ghz Overclocked to 2.2ghz
Dual DDR Synchronized 512MB Ram
nForce2 Dolby Digital 5.1 Sound System Built onto Motherboard.
ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe v2.0 MotherBoard.

I also have a USB Midisport 2x2 by Midiman

For Keyboard Controller I may use my Roland W-30 Sampling Keyboard or pickup a used Roland PC-200 from Ebay.

Any suggestions on Hardware and Software or simply Comments would really be appreciated.

Regards.

Analog-X

Post by **tas** » 12/02/2004 - 3:27

Your gonna get alot of different opinions here matey. I think it's safe to say Fruityloops is the easiest to use and you can get very good results from it too. Glyn's Firelord was done in Fruityloops, however if you got the knowledge or rather the temperment to get to grips with reason then out of the two reason is far a better option.

Interesting you mention the Atari ST however, Marcel would argue that using the ST with cubase is deffinitely the way to go due to the ST having superior timings. maybe marcel will explain more on this matter.

dan gillgrass · Post by **dan gillgrass** » 12/02/2004 - 20:26

Tas wrote:Your gonna get alot of different opinions here matey. I think it's safe to say Fruityloops is the easiest to use and you can get very good results from it too. Glyn's Firelord was done in Fruityloops, however if you got the knowledge or rather the temperment to get to grips with reason then out of the two reason is far a better option.

Interesting you mention the Atari ST however, Marcel would argue that using the ST with cubase is deffinitely the way to go due to the ST having superior timings. maybe marcel will explain more on this matter.

So was Gordians!!!! YEAH!

Subzero · Post by **Subzero** » 12/02/2004 - 22:58

Rafi mate - i'd recommend reason, but dont base that recommendation on any of the remixes i've done with it!!!

Analog-X64 · Post by **Analog-X64** » 13/02/2004 - 0:27

I want to hear the different opinions

A friend who has used Reason before tells me that it requires quite a bit of setup before you can begin composing/remixing.

I want to hear the different opinions, as well on MIDI Keyboard Controllers. I was thinking getting the Roland PC-200. I have a Roland W-30 Sampling workstation but its bulky and overkill to use as a keyboard controllera and the fact that it needs to have the O/S Booted up everytime I go to use it.

On my Atari ST I've tried earlier vesions of Cubase but I just never comfortable with it.

Tas wrote:Your gonna get alot of different opinions here matey. I think it's safe to say Fruityloops is the easiest to use and you can get very good results from it too. Glyn's Firelord was done in Fruityloops, however if you got the knowledge or rather the temperment to get to grips with reason then out of the two reason is far a better option.

Interesting you mention the Atari ST however, Marcel would argue that using the ST with cubase is deffinitely the way to go due to the ST having superior timings. maybe marcel will explain more on this matter.

Marcel Donné · Post by **Marcel Donné** » 13/02/2004 - 1:10

It's quite impossible for me to say what would be the best way for you to go in this matter but I would definately stick to the W30 (despite the fact that you have to boot it up each time you turn it on) as it has a fullsized keyboard and can provide a bit of "grunge" to certain sounds because the DAC's are 12-bit, I believe. I have analog synths in my collection that need 45 mins. 'warming up' before they are in tune properly!

As for your choice of sequencer, well, that is a personal matter. I know that Thomas Detert will stick to Logic, and that Chris Abbott will stay faithfull to Sonar.

Me? I'm a Cubase guy and have been since 1988. It's all a matter of personal preference. How fast and, more importantly, how easy, can you get things done in a piece of software?

I still prefer using Cubase Audio XT 3.01 on PC, mainly because my wimpy PentiumII won't allow using any VST stuff and it works fine for me. If making music was my bread and butter instead of a hobby I'd most probably have Cubase SX running by now.

Recently I dug up my Atari 1040STe from my parents's basement to experiment with a piece of interactive MIDI software called "M" which has recently become available as freeware. http://tamw.atari-users.net/m.htm

Good luck in your quest

Marcel

Analog-X64 · Post by **Analog-X64** » 13/02/2004 - 4:46

Thanks for your comments.

one of the main reasons that I'm doing all this research before I set onto my quest

is that I do not have that much Free time, and I want to invest time on a single piece of software that I can get good with and its an all around piece of software to use.

If I spend too much time with hardware setup or fiddling in Software to try and make a Remix thats valuable time lost that could have been spent making music.

I guess I might as well start with something and Fruity Loops might be it, and if all goes well I'll have my First C64 Remix tune soon

Marcel DonnÃƒÂ© wrote: As for your choice of sequencer, well, that is a personal matter. I know that Thomas Detert will stick to Logic, and that Chris Abbott will stay faithfull to Sonar.

Good luck in your quest

Marcel

Retrovertigo · Post by **Retrovertigo** » 17/02/2004 - 16:29

Sonars a fine piece of work. If i had to recommend one program though I'd have to go with Reason. The only faults i can find with the program would be the lack of vst/dx support and live wav recording, however for what it provides it more than over compensates. The quality of sounds it can provide are well impressive but i'd recommend you get a seprate sequencer such as sonar/cubase/cool edit for final editing.

Actually most importantly:

Reason is only actually useful if you're using midi or simliar, more for backing or orchestral tracks. If it's actually recording live instruments or voice you need go for the others

DHS · Post by **DHS** » 17/02/2004 - 19:16

Definitely Cubase SX (or SL) 2 or Sonar (second choice) and i tell you why:

-Cubase, since the 1st SX release, it's really another story, much more friendly.
-Cubase is the most "expandable" host around, with his VST/DX, MFX (and soon VST-Midi) capabilities.
-Cubase has a pretty "standard" way to work (much as Sonar or Logic) that doesn't mistlead you with non-standard/particular ways to work (like FL, Orion, Buzz, Reason or a tracker), so you can jump, let's say, to Logic or Sonar without many problems.
-Cubase is the 1st choice supported host when a software or/and hardware developer makes something new.
-Damn, cubase is a pleasure to use

-Cubase allows you to take the "next step" to prof. if you want.

On the other side:

-Reason, Orion, FL: have their unique ways to work with them. Reason sounds very good but it's a *closed* host with closed architechture. You can expand his capabilities only if and when Propellerheads decides you can (paying, of course).

If it's not cubase, go for sonar: i don't like it at all, but at least you work with a "real" sequencer.

ciao.

Sonic Wanderer · Post by **Sonic Wanderer** » 17/02/2004 - 19:23

*AND*, you can always use Cubase SX together with Reason using ReWire. Works like a charm. I'm experimenting with it right now.
Kind of "best of two worlds". =)

Retrovertigo · Post by **Retrovertigo** » 18/02/2004 - 13:42

Exactly! How'd I not think of that??!

Infamous · Post by **Infamous** » 18/02/2004 - 17:33

re-wire works with buzz too.
aswell as 99% of cubase/soundforge vsti's.

buzz is like the trapper keeper of the music world.. can take on board nearly every vsti, dx, soundfont, midi controller blah etc etc without any trouble.. hence why i love buzz.

but then its a right bastard to learn.

double edged sword.

Markus Schneider · Post by **Markus Schneider** » 18/02/2004 - 17:58

What I love is that Sonar comes with a macro language. You can program your own (or even donwload from others) macros to make your work faster (e.g. legato or faking legato with overlapping) with one-push-button.

I think every program needs some time to handle. For me the fastest to handle was Reason, but it's not a very 'compatible' program. That's why I changed very fast to Sonar and stayed there.

I am wondering if Cubase can do macros ? Anyone knows ? This could be a reason to change then, since I go along with all said features above.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 18/02/2004 - 18:51

Markus, are you any good at programming with CAL?

Chris

Markus Schneider · Post by **Markus Schneider** » 18/02/2004 - 21:04

Well, won't say good. Anway all I needed I got programmed. It's half a year ago I did the last thing, so I would probably need almost the same time to get in when I needed a new macro. But I when I see that a macro programming takes 4 hours but can save in a year 50 hours in sequencing, there's no doubt to spend the time. Remember the SIDCLEAN.CAL I send to you some months ago ? There are a lot of those short but useful CAL's I have done ...

Reason or not to Reason :)

Reason or not to Reason :)

Which way to go? I honestly don't know....

Re: Which way to go? I honestly don't know....