The next 'Back In Time Live' (BIT2K5 if there is one?)

hyperhack · Post by **hyperhack** » 12/09/2004 - 13:05

Okay I know i'm brave for putting this in, and Chris Abbott is probably going to want to punch my lights out, but this board is about having your say so I will do that. So here goes:

Okay this whole scene is about the composers, the fans, and the music isnt it? So as Chris has had a hard time of it this year rallying support and is inclined not to do another, why don't we the fans do our part and ALL chip in if there is to be another next year? (we live in hope) I know people are busy and have families and so on, and some may have more time than others. I'm sure there are a lot of fans out there who can code, do graphics or provide equipment or know people who can do xyz or whatever?

The point i'm trying to make is why doesnt the scene allow the audience to contribute in helping with the programming/content of the concert itself?

I know this is premature talking about another after one event has been and gone, but we know that the success of something depends on planning. If we all start now as appossed to later.

I myself, would be very unhappy if this truely was the last one to go out on, and I feel that there is more to do and explore, even if it is the same tunes being replayed, we dont tire from them because one tune can be replayed in 100s of different ways! Why not have some tunes set and others open for people to vote on all the way up to the event? that way everyones happy?

If we rally support for this now and more ppl contribute in some manner then maybe Chris (nudge nudge) will overturn his decision to not proceed with these events in future?

I myself would put my money where my mouth is and contribute, I would certainly like to help with visuals as I'm a programmer and a bit arty as well.

Well you can all tell me i'm talking tosh and to f**k off if you want, but wouldnt it be better if we ALL took part in some way to help the scene and to ensure another event?

I'm sure there would be many ways to do it and keep costs down, but i'm not trying to take over and manage the event, there is only one man that can do that and we all know who.

Voice your opinions on the subject, i'm sure others would be interested in the points ive mentioned?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » 12/09/2004 - 14:54

It takes a rich man with a lot of will to put on a show like Bitlive .... just sit back and have a think about the numbers for a sec.... in another post, chris referes to "needing a spare 9 grand".... then tot up 200 ppl at around Ã‚Â£20 a ticket..... yeah..... you dont get ya money back at all do ya ....

Anyone who wants to put on an event like bitlive should be quite happy to take a serious hit to their wallett in the thousands area..... Personally speaking i think we've done well to reach Bitlive 6 (2004 - 5 was Brighton though theres debate over the numbering thing)...... I dont and cant have a crack at Chris for backing out, im amazed it lasted as long as it did with his pure dedication and the hardworking team around him that put in their time for free.

I agree there should be more, but i think some1 else needs to take the reins now - Chris has a family and other more pressing concerns these days that another Bitlive or who to invite to keep everyone happy. Ive loved Every SECOND of the Bitlives (I started with them in Soho in 2002), but i wouldnt wish Chris into bankruptcy for another one.

Lets hope this little collaboration between Ben, Pex and others proves fruitful - perhaps the next one will be in Sweden, perhaps not, maybe fans will do a little thing at one of the Retrovision shows - only time will tell... but ill tell you this..... barring act of god, loss of life or lossof limb - ill be there..... and ....... Ill prolly do that poster too

hyperhack · Post by **hyperhack** » 12/09/2004 - 15:32

Yeah I realise it takes a lot of funding to pull events like this off, and as ive said before I have the upmost admiration for Chris Abbott, and I regret that I didnt have the opportunity to shake his hand and say thanks at the end but he did look kind of busy.

It's a real shame about the turnout this year but im sure that more people would put in an appearance if another event happened, hopefully Chris pulling out will be a wake up call to all of those who didnt attend this time?

Hopefully the other people within the circle will pull together and keep things going for us, fingers crossed.

If I can do anything to help I will certainly chip in, I hope that others will take the incentive too?

RetroMarkie · Post by **RetroMarkie** » 12/09/2004 - 17:16

The Mad Fiddler and with lucl PPOT will be at future Retrovision shows IF there is not going to be another BIT. I personally would vouch for another BIT back at Gossips.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » 12/09/2004 - 17:58

GOSSIPS !! YOU SICK MOFO lol ....

merman · Post by **merman** » 12/09/2004 - 19:26

Ben quite liked the idea of playing at the Classic Gaming Expo UK as well...

madfiddler · Post by **madfiddler** » 12/09/2004 - 19:40

Not just Benn!!!

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 12/09/2004 - 20:21

(moved froom other thread, talking about getting performers and special guests to a future BIT Live)

> Getting THEM to the venue is just as important as getting the
> FANS there.
And it's been a huge part of the cost in previous BIT Lives, often dwarfing the cost of the venue.

Basically, the cost of a BIT Live (if it's not being recorded professionally) is this:

1) The cost of the venue
2) The PA
3) Travel (airfares, coaches, etc) for performers and star guests
4) Accommodation for the above
5) Rehearsal studio time
6) Equipment hire
7) Technical and stage personnel

Pizza

Now if (3) and (4) are paid by the fans, and (1) is low cost because of favours, and maybe (2), then the tickets can be pretty reasonably priced to break even. With (7) you either have to pay top dollar or rely on volunteer help, but they have to be trained and ready. Of course, this is what Mark was referring to in another thread. BIT Live (except Gossips) has basically had no stage management at all, because they're expensive, trained people. In the end, the acts did a decent job on their own. It's this aspect of the job which was the biggest factor in making me miserable during the mid to late afternoon.

Then the main issue is getting a venue that's (a) cheap, (b) attractive and good to play in, (c) easy to find and (d) is available when the concert is on. I know to my cost how difficult it is for anyone to do anything during the week, so it has to be on a Friday or Saturday.

If, say, Copenhagen has a venue which can be cheaply or freely hired at a weekend, and if the fans can raise enough money for airfare, accommodation and a decent amount of studio time for performers and special guests, then there's a chance that a BIT Live could break even for whoever was running it. It's also the case that if a BIT Live isn't held in the UK, whoever organises it should be in that country also. Volker took up the reins for Hamburg, and it would have to be a Dane for Copenhagen, say in June next year for the launch of the DVD.

On balance, you'd probably get Fred Gray and Richard Joseph, maybe Rob would perform if he was up to it, Dave Whittaker... well, if Rob went, he might come. Martin feels like Brighton was pretty much it. And if there's money for Paul Norman, he'd want to come to.

So you'd have a setlist which would look like this:

PPOT
Visa Roster
Rob Hubbard
Stuck in D'80s (with Reyn and Jon in the lineup, since Reyn can play anything)
Mafia
Some free and inexplicably enthusiastic orchestra to do a couple of symphonic covers...
and whoever else has formed by then.

If it was back in the tradition of BIT Lives, then it would be held on the 19th June next year.

The main reason I threw in the towel for BIT Live was that it was costing me a fortune, and causing me too much stress in organisational terms. If those weights are lifted, then I'd be happy to work with whoever is on the ground in Denmark to try and get another one off the ground, if only because I want to see the St. Luke's show again but with decent PA (though the DVD soundtrack will kick some serious bottom).

Basically, another BIT Live can happen, but I can't have it resting on my shoulders any more. The weight was crippling. Plus I promised that it would be the last one, and I don't want to appear cynical.

The thing that Copenhagen has going for it is:

1) Nice city, with handy waterfronts
2) Easy to get to for performers (hardly any airfares)
3) Easy to get to for fans (though the UK people probably won't show in great numbers because *gasp* it involves getting on an aeroplane
4) It's never been done there before. Possibly less apathy.

Shall I just itemise in detail here all the bits that have to be in place for a BIT Live so that people can pledge appropriate help/finance, or whatever? If there can be no costs at all, then there'd be no need to charge more than a nominal amount for tickets!

Chris

thalamus · Post by **thalamus** » 12/09/2004 - 22:48

Just thinking out loud here - don't shoot me down in flames

1. Location - I guess there are pros and cons for each. I would have thought the UK, cost aside, was a good place because of the fanbase. Would there be more fans in Copenhagen, though?

2. I really like some of RetroMarkie's ideas, re: collaborative events, and having some form of Remix Webring where you chaps join forces, unite, and plug each other to generate revenue.

3. I like the idea of taking some of the burden from Chris, possibly installing a core team to handle different aspects with each entirely responsible for their own part.

4. A centralised fund is a good idea. You could add an incentive in the form of a profit-share (i.e. if the event made a profit, those who contributed to the fund get a proportional percentage back). Of course, the key isn't to make money - just ensure that the event happens.

5. More media interest. It would be nice to get the press more involved, and get a bit more support from the mainstream computer mags. Is it inconceivable to get a company like GamerTV involved, to cover the event? Or get interviews on local radio stations?

6. More corporate interest / Sponsorship.

7. Re-Branding. If, for instance, events such as Retrovision and BIT Live were combined to split the risk, you could encompass everything under a "Back in Time" brand name. Thus, you have Back in Time Live events, Back in Time Retrovision, Back in Time Jagfest, etc.

8. Why not hire a venue similar to that used by Retrovision, i.e. multiple facilities within strolling distance; team up with a venue or hotel to book the entire place for a weekend and get discounts on accomodation (having everybody in one place would also allow the pub-based chats to happen naturally, rather than have to factor them in to the schedule).

9. Approach the event like a convention - hold it over 3 days, and have key events on different days. The first could be a retro / computer fair, the second day retrovision/jagfest, and the third day climaxes with a concert.

10. Competitions - Remix competitions, with a panel of judges, demo competitions, gaming competitions.

11. Naked women.

renegade_si · Post by **renegade_si** » 12/09/2004 - 23:01

TSW please - please please please!!!

demo compey maybe, but what prizes?

live remixing/DJing scratching now that would be cool.

btw I will play the drums next time if anyone wants. and if u dont then I will do it on the back of the chair again like I did last night instead.

Apologies again to the Swedes.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 12/09/2004 - 23:10

<<<
1. Location - I guess there are pros and cons for each. I would have thought the UK, cost aside, was a good place because of the fanbase. Would there be more fans in Copenhagen, though?
>>>
Probably more, if you think of the countries that can make it without flying. Crossing borders is nothing to our European partners!

<<<
5. More media interest. It would be nice to get the press more involved, and get a bit more support from the mainstream computer mags. Is it incoincievable to get a company liek GamerTV involved, to cover the event? Or get interviews on local radio stations?
>>>
In Denmark it would be a lot more possible than here. The British press just isn't interested. And we've had local radio, TV, etc, before, and it's been no help whatsoever. I think the press overrates its own effectiveness, frankly.

> 6. More corporate interest / Sponsorship.
Well, we tried and failed. And I'm pretty angry at Tulip at the moment, I can tell you. It probably needs someone of the stature of Gazl to make this aspect work.

<<<
7. Re-Branding. If, for instance, events such as Retrovision and BIT Live were combined to split the risk, you could encompass everything under a "Back in Time" brand name. Thus, you have Back in Time Live events, Back in Time Retrovision, Back in Time Jagfest, etc.
>>>
Very Cadbury's

<<<
8. Why not hire a venue similar to that used by Retrovision, i.e. multiple facilities within strolling distance; team up with a venue or hotel to book the entire place for a weekend and get discounts on accomodation (having everybody in one place would also allow the pub-based chats to happen naturally, rather than have to factor them in to the schedule).
>>>
Because BIT Live has a live event in the middle of it, that has to have Mark Knight and Ben Daglish in it

<<<
9. Approach the event like a convention - hold it over 3 days, and have key events on different days. The first could be a retro / computer fair, the second day retrovision/jagfest, and the third day climaxes with a concert.
>>>
Like... let's think... a bit like Retro Expo in July where PPOT are playing?

<<<
10. Competitions - Remix competitions, with a panel of judges, demo competitions, gaming competitions.
>>>
It's entertaining, but it doesn't affect ticket sales.

> 11. Naked women.
Might attract the wrong kind of horny interfacer!

Hehe... you got that from what I said?

Chris

thalamus · Post by **thalamus** » 12/09/2004 - 23:26

Chris Abbott wrote:Like... let's think... a bit like Retro Expo in July where PPOT are playing?

Yeah! Well spotted!

madfiddler · Post by **madfiddler** » 12/09/2004 - 23:58

thalamus wrote:4. A centralised fund is a good idea. You could add an incentive in the form of a profit-share (i.e. if the event made a profit, those who contributed to the fund get a proportional percentage back). Of course, the key isn't to make money - just ensure that the event happens.

Not to put a dampener on that particular idea - just remember that for all BITLives so far, the performers have not been (nor asked for) paidment...

However, when you start talking about profitable events, that would have to change.

Personally, I'm so so so keen to keep BITLive going, however I wouldn't let myself nor fellow band members be taken for a ride, so to speak..

Bog · Post by **Bog** » 13/09/2004 - 0:11

Madfiddler:

Two words: TIP JAR.

Next time I see you, warn me in advance and I swear to Gh0d I will personally shove Ã‚Â£20 in your hand, tuck in it your fretboard or shove it down your fscking pants. More if I've got it.

I'd rather spend it on your playing than on beer. And for me, that's sayin' a lot.

madfiddler · Post by **madfiddler** » 13/09/2004 - 0:20

Haha - well I'm quite happy to be boozed up by others for the moment, just making a point really

Not keen on tip jars really.. prefer a vodka dropoff or something, hehe.

The way I see this whole thing, isn't to make a profit out of it. We just need to find a way to make the event pay for itself. Everyone agrees that it shouldn't stop. I wanna do it again, as I have some fine super sexy ideas for Spellbound after our live practise of it at St.Lukes

I wanna keep doing them, as does all the band members of each band.

Chris came up with a great concept, so lets find ways to keep it going but 1) not leading Chris to a burst blood vessel... or going bankrupt

Are you the mighty one?