Markus's Shadow Skimmer

Max Levin · Post by **Max Levin** » 28/03/2003 - 11:14

What does R:K:O logout mean?

Makke · Post by **Makke** » 28/03/2003 - 11:52

I don't know, but it probably means "IT'S A DAMN SHAME THIS CHOON ISN'T HIGHER IN THE CHARTS BECAUSE IT'S BLOODY WORTH IT, YOU NO GOOD TOSSERS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO VOTE CORRECTLY"!

Uhm...then again, maybe not...

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 28/03/2003 - 13:55

I guess I'm not the only one finding it suspicious that as soon as Neil mentions its 96% rating on the front page of R64, the mix goes into chart freefall...

DHS · Post by **DHS** » 28/03/2003 - 14:29

Makke wrote:I don't know, but it probably means "IT'S A DAMN SHAME THIS CHOON ISN'T HIGHER IN THE CHARTS BECAUSE IT'S BLOODY WORTH IT, YOU NO GOOD TOSSERS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO VOTE CORRECTLY"!

I totally agree.

Vosla · Post by **Vosla** » 28/03/2003 - 14:39

maybe those who voted last were darth dubya's henchmen... to punish all germans for not being fond of war (this time)...

ifadeo · Post by **ifadeo** » 28/03/2003 - 15:11

DHS · Post by **DHS** » 28/03/2003 - 16:00

There are two entities:

We (remixers) and listeners (voters).

We expect an impartial judice on our music.
Eg: the listener is an heavy metal freak, we make orchestral, we expect that, if he doesn't like orchestral he at least gives us good votes for technical and/or sound and so on.

the metal head, on the other side, just hear what he think is
"symphonic crap" and gives bad votes.

On the other side, if this is true, i still don't understand high placements for Glyn, Mahoney or Machinae Supremacy, since:

-Glyn usually makes symphonic.
-Machinae makes hard rock/metal.
-Mahoney makes "weird" tunes, surely not targeted at wide audiences.

So, what's up with Markus cover? why it's so low?
Could be that's because peple don't know the original sid?

or, maybe, the final statement is that most voters are plain idiots
(they have for not aknowledging the greatness of Markus cover...)?

.....

Michael · Post by **Michael** » 28/03/2003 - 16:16

Harsh words there from you, 2Klang.

Apparently, it is very difficult to please you. Instead of complaining steadily about either lack of feedback or disrespect, what feedback do you expect? What do you suggest? What do you want to see changed? And how should it be instead?

there're too many ppl outthere, playing around with great features like reviews & voting.... many of them shows a lack of respect for remixers and the founders of sites like remix64, R:K:O:, c64audio ect. ect.

No. Actually, they support the sites whenever they take the time and vote. All those who just download silently without ever posting feedback or submitting votes, they don't support these sites. One fundamental idea behind the rating system is to make it easier for newbies to find the outstanding and very good stuff among several hundred mp3 files of varying quality. Faster and easier access to the high-quality remixes raises interest in "the scene". That's where the charts help, hopefully. Of course, you can also put average -- or good but unspectacular -- tunes on a CD and try to sell that CD. But don't be surprised when your potential customers are disappointed. In the charts you can see what type of remixes people like.

i'm sure that many people use that vote-feature to fake around...

According to Neil and Markus this has been investigated several times before and is not true. There is even an article about it. You cannot simply claim that whenever you presume that somone disagrees with your view and your taste of music, that he "fakes around". Who should have any interest in pushing down Markus Schneider's remix? Every new release is compared to the older releases. That's only natural. When there are older remixes that work even better, well, that's what you can observe here. It doesn't mean that a remix rated at 84% would be much worse. It's still a highlight.

...i talked about this with other remixers and we all get more & more
about such things frustrated.... and maybe lman, neil & chris too...

Which differs completely from what remixers wrote on c64rmx list before the rating system was implemented. But obviously, when remixers expect only "outstanding" votes and reviews, it is impossible to please them.

btw. i only vote for a remix after listen to it, and not just for fun without downloading it...

Is this an accusation?

If so, what observation is it based on?

Reply to DHS's posting will probably follow later. No time right now. The point of view that listeners are musically illiterate "plain idiots" is risky.

exo · Post by **exo** » 28/03/2003 - 16:43

perhaps the solution would be to make a special list where remixers vote on remixers - then they're sure there's some credibility behind the results

then in order to get in the remixer group some other remixers must check you

or not

ifadeo · Post by **ifadeo** » 28/03/2003 - 17:40

Michael · Post by **Michael** » 28/03/2003 - 18:12

There are 406 "very good" remixes and 25 "outstanding" remixes. Shadow Skimmer is on rank #32. What's wrong with that? Do you think it is more complete than a good portion of the 31 remixes above it? Do you think it is a perfectly balanced arrangement which should be on #1?

I hear your complaints, but I don't understand them.

It's a remix in the orchestral genre. Not many orchestral remixes have been created. But nevertheless, this particular remix can be compared with "the best" C64 remixes so far -- "best" as in best technical impression, best sounding equipment, most creativity and so on. It is a tough battle near the TOP 50 (page #1).

As a side-note: My old criticism with regard to so-called "pushing" hasn't changed. I still see the risk that early "outstanding" votes give the impression of some people "pushing" a remix. I presume (!) that a few voters feel the need to disagree (it's vice versa and a similar thing with early "poor" votes, but this is irrelevant here) with the current position by voting one rank lower because they don't think the high rank is justified. Among the early voters are fellow remixers, I think. As you can see from their comments in these message boards, they often find all tunes at least very good, if not outstanding. What happened if they did NOT vote early but waited until a dozen ordinary listeners have voted? Let them "hold back" their outstanding votes and wait what the listeners think. Wouldn't that be an interesting experiment?

Rafael Dyll · Post by **Rafael Dyll** » 28/03/2003 - 18:19

I presume "logout" means that Markus has uploaded his last remix to RKo and is hence "loggin out".

I may be wrong but I think I'm not...

Guys, this is a dangerous topic. I myself (and I think Markus did just as much) have had this discussion 53452 times and it's not worth it. People are people and they have their opinions and habbits. End of story.

Logout.

Rafael

Rafael Dyll · Post by **Rafael Dyll** » 28/03/2003 - 18:22

I presume "logout" means that Markus has uploaded his last remix to RKo and is hence "loggin out".

I may be wrong but I think I'm not...

Guys, this is a dangerous topic. I myself (and I think Markus did just as much) have had this discussion 53452 times and it's not worth it. People are people and they have their opinions and habbits. End of story.

Logout.

Rafael

Vosla · Post by **Vosla** » 28/03/2003 - 18:42

...as i voted for that remix, it was already 'outstanding'... i think it was about 86% or so and 25 people voted so far. i voted 'outstanding' and now 3 more people voted and it dropped to 84%. that's one 'very good' and two 'good', i think. no 'powervoting' so far, i guess...
btw. i was kidding in my last post...

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 28/03/2003 - 19:22

<<<
Of course, you can also put average -- or good but unspectacular -- tunes on a CD and try to sell that CD. But don't be surprised when your potential customers are disappointed.
>>>
Any particular CD in mind? Or is this a hypothetical CD?

FWIW, I think Shadow Skimmer suffers a bit in the votingfrom its original SID being more obscure: there's no doubting the quality of the remix...

Chris