German Lawyer claims Wizball isn't music...

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 13/06/2005 - 13:02

Hehe, but as with all things, this guy doesn't know that. People here have enough credentials to give their honest opinion. They're not all in my back pocket

Chris

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 13/06/2005 - 13:47

Well, as someone who creates music, I would argue that the introduction to the Console track "14 Zero Zero" is a major part of immediately recognising the track. Had it have started at 0'06, it would have been far more lost in radio play.

Actually, what are the other C64 sounds heard within? It's not just Wizball, that's for sureÃ¢â‚¬â€there are sfx from other C64 games in there, too, I think.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 13/06/2005 - 14:10

CraigG wrote:Well, as someone who creates music, I would argue that the introduction to the Console track "14 Zero Zero" is a major part of immediately recognising the track. Had it have started at 0'06, it would have been far more lost in radio play.

Actually, what are the other C64 sounds heard within? It's not just Wizball, that's for sureÃ¢â‚¬â€there are sfx from other C64 games in there, too, I think.

We'll use that as the backup argument: much more difficult to prove, so we should fight the battles we can win... unfortunately there are no lengths to which a lawyer won't sink for a paying client.

Chris

Lagerfeldt · Post by **Lagerfeldt** » 13/06/2005 - 19:57

If this does in fact end up in court, I think the most persuasive point - not the most logical - is the fact that there is a sort of precedence with the Lazy Jones theme and Game Over bass line. We're talking Galway, we're talking SID music, we're talking dance music - you see the pattern?

Any judge (or I would recommend instead: an arbiter) would take this precedence very strongly into account, believe me. In fact you should hear the PRS about paying for the arbitration court, if the case is unique (I believe it is), they might just offer that - usually up to around Ã‚Â£5.000 in costs.

If it goes that far, there is one more point that you could make in case that particular Wizball subtune hasn't been released officially on a cd before..? Since you hold the ultimate rights for first time mechanical rights, there's some additional damages involved too.

If only you lived in the US..

GeckoYamori · Post by **GeckoYamori** » 13/06/2005 - 20:26

Can someone get a clip of the tune in question? I'd like to hear it for comparison.

But yeah, that guy is a real prick. Using his logic you could say the same about any instrument, claiming it's the guitar that does all the work and there's no real creativity or skill put into it. There is no sound that is more "real" than the other, it's all just vibrations in the air for christ's sake.

There will always be idiots that dismiss that which is new and unknown to them. In 1982 when synthesizers had become a lot more accessible, an american senator actually tried to ban them from stores.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 13/06/2005 - 20:32

There's another precedent too: Input and Output 64: the release of Martin Galway's SIDs by the Zomba label (in Sidplay 1 output form, irritatingly), and the use of SIDs in the companion "Output 64".

The track concerned is actually on "Project Galway", but this was released after 14 Zero Zero.

http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/cons ... o_zero.mp3
http://www.lynnemusic.com/previews/proj ... g01-10.mp3

Chris

Vosla · Post by **Vosla** » 14/06/2005 - 11:52

Second link is dead?
First one is quite easy to recognize as a ripoff. What happened in that case?

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 14/06/2005 - 13:06

Vosla wrote:What happened in that case?

Um, that's the track this thread is about!

madfiddler · Post by **madfiddler** » 14/06/2005 - 14:05

Talking to Chris Thorne here, and he points out it has nothing to do with musicality or anything else. The fact that it is recognisable is the breach of copyright.....

Go for it Chris. Very interesting....

Vosla · Post by **Vosla** » 14/06/2005 - 18:09

CraigG wrote:
Vosla wrote:What happened in that case?
Um, that's the track this thread is about!

Whoops! Misunderstanding from my side.

tony.rc · Post by **tony.rc** » 15/06/2005 - 14:23

Give them hell Chris!
The last thing I want to see is people listening to SIDs that are remixed into Top40 songs. Considering the intelligence of the people that pushed the Frog Axel remix up the charts they would believe the artist or sound engineer were behind it. A worse scenario would be a fad of uncreative sound engineers grabbing tunes from old micro-computer to make a quick buck. The result would be derogation of SID music because when things are free you usually have less respect for it.

Imagine if the Doctor Who theme (composed by Ron Grainer) was cast in the same light as that which being portrayed by the German lawyer.

Also Chris I thought that you have had a few success with making record companies/artists pay royalties to SID composers.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 15/06/2005 - 14:26

tony.rc wrote:Give them hell Chris!
The last thing I want to see is people listening to SIDs that are remixed into Top40 songs. Considering the intelligence of the people that pushed the Frog Axel remix up the charts they would believe the artist or sound engineer were behind it. A worse scenario would be a fad of uncreative sound engineers grabbing tunes from old micro-computer to make a quick buck. The result would be derogation of SID music because when things are free you usually have less respect for it.

Imagine if the Doctor Who theme (composed by Ron Grainer) was cast in the same light as that which being portrayed by the German lawyer.

Also Chris I thought that you have had a few success with making record companies/artists pay royalties to SID composers.

Some success, yes. Not too many failures to this point. I think the peak for this sort of stealing has already gone past.

Chris

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 15/06/2005 - 16:07

tony.rc wrote:The last thing I want to see is people listening to SIDs that are remixed into Top40 songs.

Why? Assuming the artist gets paid, what's the problem with SID becoming a part of the vacuous pop industryÃ¢â‚¬â€after all, this could lead to the "scene" becoming less insular and more popular. At worst, it could end up making a few SID composers some money, and it'll hardly impact negatively on what already exists.

MFE · Post by **MFE** » 17/06/2005 - 11:11

tony.rc wrote: Imagine if the Doctor Who theme (composed by Ron Grainer) was cast in the same light as that which being portrayed by the German lawyer.

Actually Delia Derbyshire wrote the original Dr. Who theme. But at least that's a recognizable melody. I can see somewhat where this lawyer is coming from; the sound is difficult to pick as a melody to the untrained, or even poorly trained, ear. But someone had to create it in the first place, thus whoever did so holds copyright for that sequence.

And I've done me fair share of Dr. Who remixes, two of which are on the whomix.trilete.net website. I'm responsible for an unholy marriage between the good doctor and the mod file Second Reality / Unreal

madfiddler · Post by **madfiddler** » 17/06/2005 - 19:59

MFE wrote: And I've done me fair share of Dr. Who remixes, two of which are on the whomix.trilete.net website. I'm responsible for an unholy marriage between the good doctor and the mod file Second Reality / Unreal

Sorry, off topic... Which ones? I have one there too