Competing with Pro´s ... and what is Remixing ???

_Traxer_ · Post by **_Traxer_** » 22/02/2006 - 3:56

First IÃ‚Â´d like to apologize for my very bad english, but I hope all could understand what IÃ‚Â´m talking about.. =)

I am very new to Kwed.org (only 2 remixes out here by now).

I read very much reviews and even mor comments on various track. Mostly i read the comments on very high rated and on very low rated tracks.
And thatÃ‚Â´s the point :

Some guys like O2, Mahony etc. released a big number of tracks, and nearly all of them are rated high and get "awesome" comments. On the other side there are some tracks of new people and theyÃ‚Â´re tracks are stompt to the ground cause "they donÃ‚Â´t sound half as nice as XXXXXX from YYYYYY"

I think that it is not fair to people that are very new to remixing C64 music. Maybe they are not making music for long time and/or do not got the money for expensive software, samples etc.

Also i read so much comments that sound like "The track you done does not fit the mood of thg original SID in any kind." or "when do people notice that not every SID can be done that way?"

What are these guys talking about ? For myself remixing does mean nothing else like this. A remix (my opinion) means to take a original peace of music and convert it to a new style of music. Or, I get a Track and "refresh" it with new Instruments or even a complete other Set of Instruments (what is near to a new style). For example, I heard a remix album of 4 classic music students who do Kraftwerk-Tracks on two violins, cello and contrabass. Or think about all the commercial danceflor remixes based an so many old tracks.

In short :

Please donÃ‚Â´t compare Pros with newbees and let the tracks flow into your mind without comparing it with the original SID too much.

There should be an "Experience system" on this Page that does diferent Pros from noobs a little bit.

Hope I am understood right....

Pex `Mahoney` Tufvesson · Post by **Pex `Mahoney` Tufvesson** » 22/02/2006 - 7:55

Hi Traxer!

I agree with you a 100%.

Music voting isn't, and can never be, fair. The only fair judgement is what the remixer himself thinks about his own remix. If you ask a person who adores Jarre to rate an O2 remix and a Romeo Knight remix, you can easily guess that O2 will win, since he does Jarre-style remixes.

The Remix64 voting system (in my opinion) gives you a rating of "what the average Remix64-listener-with-plenty-of-free-time-that-he-chooses-to-spend-in-front-of-a-computer-voting thinks about your song". And this is a very narrow small group of people. If you don't like their voting, just ignore it. But, what it can help you with is giving you feedback on how _they_ would like your next remix to sound like. Nobody will be able to make a remix that every single listener will think is outstanding. Press Play on Tape's Comic Bakery boy band remix did not get the 100% rating it deserves. Weep, or try to cope with it.

I do hope that the voting system encourages everyone to improve their remixing skills - but actually, I think that some remixers left this place just because of _not_ being able to handle other people's opinions. I hope we'll improve - either by trying to fulfill the voters' wet dreams, or by doing exactly the opposite of what they want just for the fun of it.

The only thing I'd like to add is the time aspect. Remix64 is an evolving website where people come and go. My guess is that more than half of the people that did their voting in 2003 isn't around anymore. And maybe, just maybe, they had a more positive attitude to remixes just because there were fewer of them. And maybe the "virgin-ground" feeling disappeared. And... the only thing we can be sure of is that Remix64 is changing - all the time.

I'd also like to say that people spendig their time writing posts on the internet are strange. In one way or another. And that includes me, too...

Post by **LMan** » 22/02/2006 - 8:33

A bit in a hurry so just a brief post...

@_Traxer_: if you submit to RKO, then you enter the voting at free will. And if I were a newbie, I would not want any special treatment from the voters. After all by submitting to a public "competition", you expect to see how your song does compared to others.

@Pex: Your post made it sound as if voters are a bunch of trolls, shredding other people's work to bits with their comments (at least to someone who does not know you and the way you mean it). There are of course a handful of those, too, since it's open to everyone. But the majority of the shouters and reviewers tries to give constructive feedback.

@everyone: And that doesn't mean they have "too much free time", in a way you should be very grateful that someone bothers to give you something back instead of just leeching, listening, and moving your tune either in the "Good" or in the "Trash" folder.

Would you rather have it that you still think your tune is the best thing since sliced bread, while in reality most people think it's average?

If you're really really happy with your work, no rating whatsoever should bother you, since you made the piece exactly how *you* wanted it to be. On the other hand, if you care for what people comment, it can really help you improve as an artist - even though negative feedback can be frustrating, and it is frustrating to all of us. To me, to you, to o2 too, propably.

But to sum this up: I prefer a harsh but honest comment to an inhonest flattery at any time.

And everyone was a newbie once... Mahoney is musician for what, 15 years? So of course he has a head start.

Oh great now I'll be late for my appointment. Maybe I'll ramble on later.

Post by **LMan** » 22/02/2006 - 12:27

Okay, on I ramble!

I just wanted to add a word about the change over the years. The quality of the released tunes have improved *a lot* since the launch of the voting at the end of 2001. Each new "killer" track raises the bar higher for new releases. Take Glyn R Brown's "Firelord": by the time that one was released, everyone was blown away by it. Would it be released today, I doubt it would rank any higher than <img src="http://www.remix64.com/gfx/s51.gif"/> Very Good. That's the reason why we have moved the "All Time" charts a bit into the background and concentrate on the annual charts instead.

Conclusion: if you chose RKO for publishing your remix, you enter the competition. And the bar for scoring top positions is set very high nowadays, that goes for newbies as well as "old timers". On a personal note: Although I think I have improved over the years, my own newer releases do not score as high as they used to, for exactly that reason. And I'm happy with it! I love the music, and I love to hear other people's opinions on it, and I love to hear other peolpe's efforts.

And _Traxer_, I almost forgot: Welcome aboard, and keep releasing music! Use feedback good or bad as incentive to imrpove!

Romeo Knight · Post by **Romeo Knight** » 22/02/2006 - 15:05

as always words which are wisely spoken by Mr. Ellman

_Traxer_ · Post by **_Traxer_** » 22/02/2006 - 16:01

Thanks for welcome, LMan =)

All the comments to my post show that i am understood right

I know that I will never do a track that fits everyones needs. But i think it could be very hard for a noob musican who spend very much time and energy to do a track, maybe from his favorit old C64 game... and the is ratet very low.

The "zero tolerance" practice on this side is ok... One of my tracks was denied for uplode and gets 5 times "poor" rating by the staff. But hey, i do the same track again in a absolute other way now...

I hope to communicate with all of you a little more. My downside is that i donÃ‚Â´t now very much of mixdown technics and the use of some things like compressor or limmiter. But i hope someone can tell me some tricks...

DHS · Post by **DHS** » 22/02/2006 - 16:24

_Traxer_ wrote:But i think it could be very hard for a noob musican who spend very much time and energy to do a track, maybe from his favorit old C64 game... and the is ratet very low.

This is something that happened (and happens) to everyone of us.

_Traxer_ wrote: My downside is that i donÃ‚Â´t now very much of mixdown technics and the use of some things like compressor or limmiter. But i hope someone can tell me some tricks...

having a read HERE could help

jgb · Post by **jgb** » 22/02/2006 - 17:57

Why not let the board hear a preview of the track? I am sure that people here can give some good advice regarding mixing and mastering. That way your track should at least not fail on technical merit. The FAQ that DHS linked to is a good start.

There are some really good freeware plugins for mastering that one can download if you do not have the tools already.

Makke · Post by **Makke** » 22/02/2006 - 19:43

Well spoken words, LMan. I agree fully.

Pex `Mahoney` Tufvesson wrote:The only fair judgement is what the remixer himself thinks about his own remix.

Actually this has been proved painfully untrue far too many times. The problem is that those who need to listen the most to the advice given in the voting/shout-box (most often newcomers, with a slightly too big head for their shirt size) tend to only listen to the "bad" critisism. The constructive critisism is totally disregarded, and the voting system is made out to be a bullying-system.

Even if your tune rocks the cheese, someone is bound to hate it. Just take a look at all the top songs! They have at least one or two green votes. It's most often unfair, but it's something you have to live with. It's hard in the beginning to hear people disliking your stuff, and it can be hard to handle. But if you are to continue releasing your creations into the public domain you best learn to handle it, or esle it'll be nothing more than a sadistic torture of yourself.

Not even the creator/musician himself can give a fair judgment of his/her own creation. There's only one truth to it: that there's no "one truth". Everyone will have varying opinion, for various reasons. And even though it may seem "unfair" to compare experienced people to complete new comers there's a lot to learn in it. Of course, you shouldn't put newcomers off to continue improving their skill, but you can't do so without pointing out the flaws compared to "what's good". Then it's up to the musician how to use the information.

God...I'm rambling.

_Traxer_ wrote:Also i read so much comments that sound like "The track you done does not fit the mood of thg original SID in any kind." or "when do people notice that not every SID can be done that way?"

You have to remember that these are personal opinions. If someone can't hear the SID in one style, because they've got a different view of it...well...there's not much to do about it. You can't pry a mind open (at least not unless you force feed a person mind altering drugs), so if you think someone is a twat for saying so just disregard it.

In short:
Learn to take critisism. Some feedback is worth regarding, some should just be ignored. Just like learning to make music, you also need to learn taking and handling critisism. It's something that you're bound to get whenever you release something to the public.

One tip is to get some friends to listen to your stuff and give you feedback before releasing it. These need to be friends who'll tell you what they think and not what they think you want them to think. There's a huge difference. Some friends will tell you it sounds great when it doesn't just because they don't want to hurt your feelings.

Ok, I'm rambling again. I'll stop now.

skitz · Post by **skitz** » 22/02/2006 - 20:57

^----- you should listen to this bloke, he is the Remixer of the year don't ya know

_Traxer_ · Post by **_Traxer_** » 23/02/2006 - 3:05

So I read all over and think about...well, IÃ‚Â´m a lion-boy... those guyÃ‚Â´s do not like critics

But my new track is nearly finished. Some polishing here and there.

ItÃ‚Â´ll be "Fist II" with all 3 SID parts in one. Tryed to do a mix of asia music style with some orchestral touch. My first time i do orchestral track.

So have your sushi ready

.....

xo · Post by xo » 23/02/2006 - 9:23

Let's assume a musician has a set of goals for his music. If a particular piece of music satisfies these goals, then to the musician, the music is great, yes?

Perhaps not to many others tho, depends on whether the goal is to improve something or to just dump something into the public domain. But once in the public domain, of course oppinions must be met with respect.

gibs · Post by **gibs** » 03/04/2006 - 9:01

I personnaly need to know the original sid to vote...

but I also discover sid by some remixes by listening to slayradio...
but if I had to rate or leave a comment I prefer to head the original before, just to note the work done by the arranger.

I don't hesitate to give a + value when the arranger plays live instead of coding midi...

moog · Post by **moog** » 03/04/2006 - 9:09

gibs wrote: I don't hesitate to give a + value when the arranger plays live instead of coding midi...

That's absolutely right --- important is an effect

gibs · Post by **gibs** » 03/04/2006 - 10:22

Pex `Mahoney` Tufvesson wrote: I'd also like to say that people spendig their time writing posts on the internet are strange. In one way or another. And that includes me, too...

There's a time to do music, when you're at home.

There's a time to Post, when you are bored at work...

Competing with Pro´s ... and what is Remixing ???

Competing with ProÃ‚Â´s ... and what is Remixing ???