Lightforce debate

tomsk · Post by **tomsk** » 07/04/2006 - 18:56

OKay - so I've gone straight to the HardSid link and downloaded one of my favorite Hubbard tracks, "Lightforce"
I've always wanted to hear this SID in it's expected glory, but I think my C64 was quite old and never managed with the filters correctly. Despite that I still loved the tune.....
Which is why I was dissapointed to hear the HardSid version. I'm not knocking the technology (or those kind folks who recorded the SID onto Mp3) - merely stating that I thought it was pretty weak compared to the version I'm used to.

I did ask Waz if he could rip a bonified version to Mp3 (with his SID knowledge I was pretty sure he'd find the right type of SID chip to play it on) but if it sounds like the Hardsid version, I don't think I'll bother.

The worst parts for me are at around 3:55 > 4:30. With little attack some of the notes just dissapear
4:51 - That doesn't sound right - in fact it sounds downright poor
5:25 - Now thats nice filtering. I appreciate that!
6:15 - What's that click at the end of the notes ????

So what's the verdict..........

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 07/04/2006 - 19:16

Lightforce is notorious for pushing the filter: it even sounds bad on Galway's machine. Kenz has found a good SID chip to record it on, and I'm sure it will sound a lot better than that...

Post by **LMan** » 08/04/2006 - 7:09

On a sidenote: I always wondered about Rob's STIL comment. Why does he think it is a "piece of junk"? I really can't see why, has he ever mentioned anything?

merman · Post by **merman** » 08/04/2006 - 9:48

Lightforce has always been one of my favourite SIDs...

Kenz · Post by **Kenz** » 08/04/2006 - 11:01

The SID recording of Lightforce on the BZ CDs is absolutely beautiful! The lead sounds really crisp and bright and doesn't get lost with filtering ...

But I shall listen to HardSid recording now and will post my verdict shortly.

Kenz · Post by **Kenz** » 08/04/2006 - 11:25

Right then, I've given the HardSID version a good listening to and totally agree with Tomsk about the dodgy sections.

And the ultimate crime - THEY COMPLETELY CHOPPED THE END OF THE TUNE OFF!!! Nooooooo!!

Even though the HardSID music site is indeed a noble cause you just can't beat recording tracks from an actual C64 - there's just something about that warm sound you get from RealSID. And yes, I know the HardSID card contains an actual SID chip - but it has been ripped from the heart of a C64!!

I've been recording music from the C64 for MANY years now and there's a lot more to just playing a tune and hitting "record". For a lot of my recordings I have physically gone through entire tunes and removed any unwanted clicks BY HAND! Plus SID buzz removal is an artform to itself ...

... But hey, the proof of the pudding is in the listening - so here's an extract from my recording of Lightforce (as featured on the Epic Themes 2 CD):-

LIGHTFORCE EXTRACT

I love how the wibbles sound at 1:30 in this mp3 - kinda Galwayesque.

It's the last half of the tune so you should hear all the bits that the HardSID track strugged with.

tom · Post by **tom** » 08/04/2006 - 12:07

well, i got a recording from my C64-Sid somewhere on CD !
I am a lucky man

But the Site is cool !!!

cheers,
Tom

dan gillgrass · Post by **dan gillgrass** » 08/04/2006 - 17:22

Ahhh, the Epic Themes cds, forgot I had those beasts, must dig em out at somepoint....

And, Tomsk, cmon, Id rather hear a club singer performance anyday!

xo · Post by xo » 08/04/2006 - 20:15

Damn, that's dedication!

tomsk · Post by **tomsk** » 09/04/2006 - 11:24

Kenz - thanks man - I feel a bit better now. I reckon I'll have to make up a list of stuff for a custom compilation of SIDdy goodness (including your fantastic sounding version of Lightforce)

Lman -It's funny that Hubbard regards this tune "as junk", as I've always thought it one of his best works and alot of other people tend to agree. Perhaps he's referring to the musical structure of the tune - I dunno and I guess we'll never find out.

Dan - Club singing ? In the pub ? At One o'clock in the morning ? With my reputation ?

Waz · Post by **Waz** » 09/04/2006 - 21:36

Kenz wrote: I've been recording music from the C64 for MANY years now and there's a lot more to just playing a tune and hitting "record".

Very true. I've managed to do pretty okay with the recordings I've done so far.

Interestingly, Ben's C64 is quite filter heavy so I can imagine it'd do the same as the HardSID...

If I get chance Tomsk, I'll get down to doing a recording from this C64 so you can hear the filters in full flow and, if nothing else, note the filter variations between C64s that made it so infamous in the first place.

merman · Post by **merman** » 10/04/2006 - 8:59

tomsk wrote:Kenz - thanks man - I feel a bit better now. I reckon I'll have to make up a list of stuff for a custom compilation of SIDdy goodness (including your fantastic sounding version of Lightforce)

Lman -It's funny that Hubbard regards this tune "as junk", as I've always thought it one of his best works and alot of other people tend to agree. Perhaps he's referring to the musical structure of the tune - I dunno and I guess we'll never find out.

Dan - Club singing ? In the pub ? At One o'clock in the morning ? With my reputation ?

I get the feeling Rob H put together the Lightforce tune quickly to meet a deadline, and thus wasn't happy with it.

Tonka · Post by **Tonka** » 10/04/2006 - 14:44

One of Hubbards BEST, IMHO. Kinda 'Hubbard does Galway' with a hint of Phillip Glass thrown in (slowly evolving repetition - you know)...

Gotta be listened to with the right SID chip though (one with a more 'opened' filter) or you just lose the melodies later in the tune

Man, when that squidgy bass comes in at the start - WOW!

Tonka

tomsk · Post by **tomsk** » 10/04/2006 - 16:45

If I get chance Tomsk, I'll get down to doing a recording from this C64 so you can hear the filters in full flow and, if nothing else, note the filter variations between C64s that made it so infamous in the first place.

Thanks Waz - be interesting to hear the variation.

Waz · Post by **Waz** » 13/04/2006 - 7:34

I spent some time this morning recording Lightforce from two different C64s, and if nothing else this proves the filter variation on the SID chip.

I did the recording from Ben's first, and upon listening to it it sounds pretty much like it would from the HardSID page, with notes cut off around 4:00 and most of the similar foibles there. May I hazard a guess at a overpowering filter in the HardSID used?

Then I did a recording from my still working 20 year old C64 with a nice R4 that has a bit more of an open filter. I checked around the 4:00 mark and the notes are intact and filtered nicely. It only does the occasional blip later on in the tune and that's simply because the filter is being pushed so much.

In any case, the quality of the sound you'll get from the HardSID is only going to be as good as the SID chip you put into it, and also the SID filter variation that you're used to.

Lightforce debate

Lightforce SID Mp3 on Hardsid

Lightforce debate