Editorial 06-05 - Don't try this at home - Discussion

Tonka · Post by **Tonka** » 02/05/2006 - 17:45

Just to clear things up a bit here...

Tonka

deÃ‚Â·finÃ‚Â·iÃ‚Â·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-fn-tv)
adj.
Precisely defined or explicit.
Supplying or being a final settlement or decision; conclusive. See Synonyms at decisive.
Authoritative and complete: a definitive biography. See Usage Note at definite.
Biology. Fully formed or developed, as an organ or structure.

n. Grammar
A word that defines or limits, such as the definite article or a demonstrative pronoun.

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deÃ‚Â·finiÃ‚Â·tiveÃ‚Â·ly adv.
deÃ‚Â·finiÃ‚Â·tiveÃ‚Â·ness n.

Main Entry: deÃ‚Â·finÃ‚Â·iÃ‚Â·tive
Pronunciation: di-'fin-&t-iv
Function: adjective
: fully differentiated or developed <a definitive organ>

definitive

adj 1: clearly defined or formulated; "the plain and unequivocal language of the laws"- R.B.Taney [syn: unequivocal] 2: of recognized authority or excellence; "the definitive work on Greece"; "classical methods of navigation" [syn: authoritative, classical] 3: supplying or being a final or conclusive settlement; "a definitive verdict"; "a determinate answer to the problem" [syn: determinate]

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 02/05/2006 - 17:55

Tonka wrote:Just to clear things up a bit here...

Tonka

deÃ‚Â·finÃ‚Â·iÃ‚Â·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-fn-tv)
adj.
Precisely defined or explicit.
Supplying or being a final settlement or decision; conclusive. See Synonyms at decisive.
Authoritative and complete: a definitive biography. See Usage Note at definite.
Biology. Fully formed or developed, as an organ or structure.

n. Grammar
A word that defines or limits, such as the definite article or a demonstrative pronoun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deÃ‚Â·finiÃ‚Â·tiveÃ‚Â·ly adv.
deÃ‚Â·finiÃ‚Â·tiveÃ‚Â·ness n.

Main Entry: deÃ‚Â·finÃ‚Â·iÃ‚Â·tive
Pronunciation: di-'fin-&t-iv
Function: adjective
: fully differentiated or developed <a definitive organ>

definitive

adj 1: clearly defined or formulated; "the plain and unequivocal language of the laws"- R.B.Taney [syn: unequivocal] 2: of recognized authority or excellence; "the definitive work on Greece"; "classical methods of navigation" [syn: authoritative, classical] 3: supplying or being a final or conclusive settlement; "a definitive verdict"; "a determinate answer to the problem" [syn: determinate]

Hehe, OK.

And of course DHS almost every SID is definitive: but some remixes of SIDs are also definitive remixes. Some even become the definitive version of that piece of music, supplanting the SID, especially if the SID was self-consciously trying to be something else. There's no scientific formula.

Chris

DHS · Post by **DHS** » 02/05/2006 - 18:26

Then, may i say i'm a definitive fikalover?

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 02/05/2006 - 18:26

DHS wrote:Then, may i say i'm a definitive fikalover?

No one's stopping you

Voyager · Post by **Voyager** » 02/05/2006 - 18:31

I cannot seem to stop playing Lagerfeldts - R-Type. It is sensational. I would add that to the list of "Definative" versions of sid remakes.

Tonka · Post by **Tonka** » 02/05/2006 - 18:41

Ok - here's an experiment...

Think of the song 'Tainted Love' - hear it in your head...

Who's version did YOU hear in your head?... Not the original, I'll bet... Soft Cell's version is the definitive version. Maybe not the best, maybe not the most experimental (Marilyn Manson's version probably gets THAT prize), but it's the definitive version, despite being 1000 miles away from the original Northern Soul 'classic'.

I get what Chris is saying here (I think)... Firelord is an obvious candidate for an orchestral remix. Now it has been done in that form, what would be the point in doing another one? Well, none (except with a real orchestra, which nobody here has access to). Maybe we should say that Glynne's version is the definitive orchestral remix of Firelord (although, I personally think it's a bit weak

)...

Thinking about it, had Benn originally gotten an orchestra together and used an ultra long crystal clear 8 bit sample for the music (yeah not possible, but let's just pretend for a second), would we have enjoyed it as much? Nah - it's about the SID chip for Benn's version. Maybe it's impossible to define the definitive without segregating out the various remix styles?...

OK - I thought I had it, but now I've just lost it completely...! I'll shut up now...

Tonka

dan gillgrass · Post by **dan gillgrass** » 02/05/2006 - 19:32

Tonka wrote:Nah - it's about the SID chip

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 02/05/2006 - 19:36

dan gillgrass wrote:
Tonka wrote:Nah - it's about the SID chip

What, that sound people complain about when you use it in remixes?

Chris

Jan Lund Thomsen · Post by **Jan Lund Thomsen** » 02/05/2006 - 20:12

Chris Abbott wrote:I think the word definitive is overused in society at large: literally it means it defines something. Lazy journalism is to blame a lot of the time.

Incidentally, the reason that RKO is subtitled "The definitive guide to C64 MP3 remakes" is as a tribute to Zzap!64 and those "def' guides to <subject>" that they did from time to time. Whether they were lazy journalists or the opposite is beyond the scope of this thread.

Max Levin · Post by **Max Levin** » 03/05/2006 - 11:19

Me - William Wobbler

OK, you do it better

If I do(and I will (,I think)) what cool almost-priceless gift do I win?

Come on, say something that will get me inhumanly motivated...

...if only these unfinished Reason song-files were cash...

...or finished

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 03/05/2006 - 12:10

Max Levin wrote:
Me - William Wobbler

OK, you do it better
If I do(and I will (,I think)) what cool almost-priceless gift do I win?

Come on, say something that will get me inhumanly motivated...

...if only these unfinished Reason song-files were cash...

...or finished

You get the respect and admiration of your peers

Plus Ben Daglish will come over to your house and do a little dance*

Not a guarantee

Max Levin · Post by **Max Levin** » 04/05/2006 - 11:24

Chris Abbott wrote: You get the respect and admiration of your peers Plus Ben Daglish will come over to your house and do a little dance*

Not a guarantee

No, I said ALMOST priceless, like a car or an aeroplane with my name on it, or something like that...
Wait a minute. "Respect and admiration"... for me? That's not priceless, it's downright impossible!

On the other hand, Ben Daglish might just appreshiate some hhc-remixes of his tunes. I just have that feeling he's on Speed every now and then :9

Nickenstien · Post by **Nickenstien** » 04/05/2006 - 23:37

I know this has turned into a debate over the definition of the word definitive, arguing semantics isnt something I realy care for (im woefully dyslexic and allways make too many errors when expression my opinion in written form anyway, so I save that kind of debate for face to face conversations

)

so for my 2p I would like to list some things that I consider definitive from my perspective (weather or not that is the precise term to be used

). And I get the feeling that this is the kind of discussion Chris was originally trying to generate.

OK Here goes: -

Kraku - Speedball (Awesome in every respect)

Tonka - Palace Gardens Loader (I can't percieve this being improved upon)

Razmo - Terra Cresta (hypes me up when driving to work)

Chris Abbot - Finders Keepers (completetly captures the feeling of the original and fills my head with memories of being a young kid, I get massive nostolgia overload from this one)

Chris Abbot - Sanxion , An absolutely fantastic remix that is streets ahead of its compitition imo.

CZ Tunes - Robocop-Title & Double-Dragon-title (for the same reasons as Finders-Keepers)

Sonic Wanderer - Green Beret

JGB - Delta

there are more, but im getting tired, so i will list one more (quoting Chris as it reflects my exact sentiment on this last one)

Chris Abbott wrote:Actually it's always been frustrating to musicians when they do new stuff which is technically and maybe musically better than their old, and yet the audience continue to listen to the old stuff.

Chris

DHS - Max Headroom , DHS I have spoke with you about this tune before. You dont regard it personaly and you say it was knocked up in a few hours while learning a new sound package many years ago. You even threaten to leave the IRC channel when I request it on slay-radio shows

But that means nothing to me as I absolutely love it. So I see this one as a diffinetive and classic whil'st you see it as an embarrasment or something.

I think much of liking something is to do with the personal situation you were in when you first experienced it.

errrr thats my 2p anyway

Cheers

Voyager · Post by **Voyager** » 05/05/2006 - 20:58

Yeah, I think thats what chris was on about. Although subjective lets have a list of remix's that YOU find to be awesome, excellent and whatever.

Dimmignatt · Post by **Dimmignatt** » 17/05/2006 - 12:22

I think this Editorial was very interesting and you gotta admit.. Bound for questioning.. But I agree with most of your points and of course your list !!

But here's an example for you all..
Giana Sisters.. a Sid done to death.. But when I heard Machinae Supremacy's version.. That was the day I felt that this is how Giana sister should sound like..
But.. I can put a Ã‚Â£10000000000 pounds on that there is LOTS and LOTS of people that doesn't agree with me on that.. and for example think that DHS's version with Makke is the Definite version or Sonic Wanderers Distortion pedal thingy remix is the Definite.. So in the end it all comes down to the individuals taste.. The listeners joy and love for a certain style in music.. because IT will make a difference in what you think is a "Definite" version of a remix/song ..

But this Editorial put all these things under questioning and some people might misinpret (sorry for my bad english).. what you have written because they don't see it that way and thus makes it somewhat personal for them.. I can guess that some people got offended also (I think they come to their senses though) but when reading it, it sound like This is how it is nothing other is good.. but again it was YOUR personal list and you have a good point because the tunes mentioned is fucking brilliant !!!

Here's a little list of my own..

Giana Sisters by Machinae Supremacy
Couldn't be done better in ANY other way..

The Human Race (Bandoalle Seghe) by DHS
Unbelivable good ... makes me wanna be that good !!!

Cobra by Thomas Detert
I'm out of words.. beautiful, touching and great.

Last Ninja 3 (qso-mix) by Cirdan
Another great remix that shows what they original might had sound like
if the technology had been that good back in the days.

Hawkeye (level monster begins with C) by Axeman
I can't really say in words what I feel for this remix..
and here is a GREAT example that technology doesn't make the difference
Sure it could've sounded better but Axeman captured the feel and I think this is the best and most definite version I've heard..

Again.. This was a PERSONAL list.. so don't take offense.
I simply want to make the point that the Definite is in the "ear of the beholder ??) behearer ?? Is that a word ?.. hehe

Liked the editorial and the disscution evolving around it !! Very interesting !!

Editorial 06-05 - Don't try this at home - Discussion

Hey !!