Pay-Per-View system

[tas]

Do you think an option to buy individual tracks from Remix64 Vol. 2 is a good idea?

[CraigG]

I don't see why not if they were sensibly prices and encoded well and at a high enough bit rate (say $1 and 192kbps MP3).

[Chris Abbott]

I'm intrigued by what all those negative voters have against the idea. Care to elaborate guys?

[LMan]

I've voted negative, because selling the tunes seperately somehow blows the whole idea of making a CD at all. I mean why bother setting up a track list, designing a booklet/cover etc., investing money in master disks/print templates etc, if noone cares and just wants to have all the jam?

It would be a little like mp3.com, you could download some mixes for free, for other mixes you'd have to pay. I don't think this is what anyone wants.

- Markus

[Max Levin]

Word, Lman!

[DHS]

I simply don't like the idea of buyin online mp3, even worse c64remixes.
You can have the very best remixes onlyne to sell, but people will always prefer to download free ones. If i buy music, i want the cd, booklet and so on.

cookies.

[Chris Abbott]

> cookies.
Toasted muffins.

[q__]

Just an idea, but by doing both it wouldn't hurt sales would it?
I mean, some people might decide not to buy the cd because they don't find enough tracks good enough. They can buy the track while others, for the earlier stated reasons, buy the cd anyhow?

[Rafael Dyll]

I voted no because of piracy reasons. I agree with Lman too though.

Piracy because handing out MP3s makes it even easier to spread files. At least when a CD is bought, some people will think "well I payed for it, so it's mine, let whoever want to hear it pay too". And that's the way it should be. Making MP3s of your self-bought CD is tougher than spreading an MP3 you downloaded. If we start even offering files, what's the point in doing the CD in the first place?

Rafael

[CraigG]

I voted no because of piracy reasons.

No offence, but this makes you sound like EMI or Warner. Surely the point of modern media is that people should have the _choice_ of how to buy? Apple's iTunes Store (3 million downloads in a month) seems to suggest that this works, if it's done properly. Also, there's the possibility of people buying a track or two of their favourites, and then buying the CD itself on the strength of those tracks. Not doing the MP3 thing misses so many tricks.

Piracy because handing out MP3s makes it even easier to spread files. At least when a CD is bought, some people will think "well I payed for it, so it's mine, let whoever want to hear it pay too".

That doesn't make any sense. If someone _bought_ an MP3, they're likely to think about it in exactly the same way that you describe for the CDs...

Making MP3s of your self-bought CD is tougher than spreading an MP3 you downloaded.

Well, the first thing I'll do when I buy R64 2 is rip it to MP3, so I can listen to it while I work. This will take, at a rough guess, about two minutes, which isn't exactly tough. For the record, I won't spread it in any way, shape or form, but to say it's tougher than spreading downloads is only true to the tiniest degree.

If we start even offering files, what's the point in doing the CD in the first place?

As I said, choice.

[Dumper]

I guess it's down to who ever makes the CD, there are usually good and bad tracks on a CD and when bought the Artist will still receive money as if all the tracks are the same quality. By being able to select tracks by choice the Artist could end up receiving alot less money as few people will want the poor tracks. As i don't make music it would be ok for me to buy what tracks i like so if the Artist is fine with that then i see no problem.

[Rafael Dyll]

No offence, but this makes you sound like EMI or Warner. Surely the point of modern media is that people should have the _choice_ of how to buy?

Actually, I believe that it is down to whoever offers a product or service, to decide what they offer.

Apple's iTunes Store (3 million downloads in a month) seems to suggest that this works, if it's done properly. Also, there's the possibility of people buying a track or two of their favourites, and then buying the CD itself on the strength of those tracks. Not doing the MP3 thing misses so many tricks.

Our small community and the fact that not everyone is interested in C64 remixes sort of reduces our possible audience to a limited audience. Neil has gone for an experiment here which is honourable but I think that most of "our" buyers will still be C64 music fans. I don't think this compares with Apple's iTunes and "proper" commercial tracks.

That doesn't make any sense. If someone _bought_ an MP3, they're likely to think about it in exactly the same way that you describe for the CDs...

Yes maybe, but it makes it a *psychological* hurdle to give an entire ripped CD that you need to convert to someone rather than a single MP3 they paid a lot less for and got as an MP3 in the first place. I just don't think we should make it even easier to people by actually giving them an MP3 right away.

Rafael

[tas]

thanks for the feedback guys, i've been watching the thread with interest. Raises some excellent issues.

Like always there's pro's and con's to every idea. I've spoken to many of the team on remix64 vol.2. Afterall it affects them more than anyone. The response has been negative towards the idea by them, which by and large reflects the mood of the scene here.

I think the future actually lies with this sort of system. As the music industry is struggling severely at the moment, it needs to evolve and soon. This system i feel will probably be in place in around 3 years or more at major record companies across the globe alongside the conventional means of purchasing.

The idea is good, but i think for the moment it may be slightly premature.

[CraigG]

Actually, I believe that it is down to whoever offers a product or service, to decide what they offer.

I don't disagree with that - I was merely pointing out that clinging to the wreckage of old systems only makes one sound rather like the majors, who are doing their best to screw up the digital music revolution. At least R64 2 won't be employing any stupid protection on the CD (well, I hope not - Neil? If it has any sort of protection that doesn't allow me to rip the CD, I won't buy it.)

With regards to the iTunes thing, I obviously realise our community is much smaller, but I mentioned it only to state that the digital idea can work, despite what many in the industry thought. Remember that Apple has perhaps 5% of the world audience, of which 20% are using Mac OS X. Of those, only a fraction have iTunes 4 and live in the USA, where the store is usable. Most expected the company to deliver tens of thousands of tracks, but it did far better than expectations in this area - and perhaps R64 2 could, too.

As for the psychological 'hurdle', I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Tracks as MP3 often end up costing _more_ than the CD would have done (at least per track); moreover, once things are in an easily distributable format, I don't think it makes a lot of difference where the original came from. I guess there are plenty of people that would share my view, but also just as many that would share yours.

Of course, the only real important response comes from the artists themselves, and if they decide against such a scheme, then so be it. However, they may well be missing a trick, most obviously in rapid impulse buys over the Web. I myself just haven't gotten around to buying a bunch of C64 remix stuff yet, and had I have had the opportunity to buy them via the Web at the time, I would have done. However, at least one of the CDs now sounds too dated to bother with, so that's effectively a lost sale.

Anyway, I guess this is null now, as Neil's made the decision, so I'll just shut up.

[merman]

Those of you who are a bit older may remember
1) The EDOS system of buying games, where they were stored on a big machine, copied in the store and put into standardized packaging printed at the same time.
2) Virgin Music's experiment with a "build your own" compilation - tracks were licensed, you selected from a list and burnt 10 to a CD, all from an in-store machine.

So, what's the point of all this? The "pay per track" option might be the way to go, and increase sales. A friend of mine asked a mate with a PC to create a remix compilation of tunes he'd heard at Back in Time Live, so there should be a market.

How would it work?
a) Small payment to the remixer/arranger for agreeing to put their track on the system
b) Front-end on the remix64 website for ordering - pick 10 tracks/70 minutes of music.
c) Tracks are burnt to CD with a professional looking inlay produced. E.G. for each track, details like name of remixer, website links, reviews from the Remix64 database, etc.
d) Shipping & handling costs
e) Send out the completed CD
f) Pay the remixers a small price per track chosen.


That's my idea, for what it's worth. I voted "Yes, but I'll buy the CD" because I'm a traditionalist - I like the convenience of having the music on CD so I can play it in different rooms (bedroom, lounge, study) and the sleeve/inlay.