Annual rant by your friend dhs...

[Romeo Knight]

Very good explanations, Infy and tas.
Problems start when "What an ugly skirt!" instead of "Nice skirt!" is shouted.

"Is it really ugly? I don't believe so, there are so many others that liked it (even though it's a kilt)"
"Does he hate it because he doesn't recognize it's a kilt?"
"He's to dumb to recognize it's a kilt so his comment doesn't make any sense. He's an idiot."

This is where discussions start. And in my opinion - in the figurative sense here are a lot of people who can't distinct a skirt from a kilt.
Hi Omo!

[Analog-X64]

Kilt....Skirt... same thing. You can call it whatever you want... Just like "Man Purse" its a Purse, putting Man infront of it, dont make it right.

PS: I'm just messin witcha

[Condor]

Heh I stand behind my comment

[omoroca]

This is where discussions start. And in my opinion - in the figurative sense here are a lot of people who can't distinct a skirt from a kilt.
Hi Omo!

That is easy!

Romeo Knight: Skirt!
Westerling, Gibs etc.: Kilt!

[DHS]

Well, i'm glad to see that at least this time the argument is treated in a constructive way.

I must say, if I'm expected to structure my "shouts" in a specific way, I'll probably stop shouting all together.

I can perfectly understand your feelings here.
On the other side some remixer may start to feeling pissed with people bashing freely their work only because they don't like the way they remixed or because 'everybodyexpectsomethingdifferentfromhim'.
It's never a good idea to put creative people in cages, and that's exactly what many reviewers/shouters do.
There's even more than one remixer who stopped posting here or simply releasing stuff just because he felt to have been treated in a unfair way one time too much.
And yes, there are *many* reasons if my last official release is dated Feb-2006 and unofficial Apr-2006: the most important maybe being feeling deeply pissed at people trying to cage my creativity, telling me what i sould dare to do or no to do in my remixes, in what style i should do them and so on.
That's the result of mindless happy shouting. If that's ok with you it's so with me. Since Apr2006. and with people like me.

This is where discussions start. And in my opinion - in the figurative sense here are a lot of people who can't distinct a skirt from a kilt.

Absolutely.

[tas]

Some valid points on this from all directions and as DHS said this is quite a constructive thread..

People will always dislike comments which aren't of a congratulative stance - It's human nature. I know personally i have never responded to criticism very well and respond much better to positive re-enforcement. Thus a review should be so. However, you simply cannot give that type of information in a one line sentence (A shout).

Ultimately, it's difficult if not impossible to change a persons behaviour - If they think they are right then they are in their own mind. The only thing you can do is to review the structure of how things work to prevent such actions. Are you saying DHS that the shout style voting is detrimental to your creativity because it's not constructive enough? If so how would you go about changing the system in place to one which suits better?

[xo]

Months (or was it years) ago, I was annoyed at not being able to vote without shouting. Some remixers may wish to block out the possibility of negative or unconstructive shouts so only reviews are allowed. On the other hand, other remixers may actually like the shouts they're getting and may choose to ignore the shouts they don't find constructive. Maybe we could have a "vote vote" as beyond suggested, but that seems over the top to me. Or perhaps a musician can simply put some people on their vote ignore list, either mechanically or mentally, if they feel offended. A fellow musicians review is perhaps the most constructive and positive criticism that can be given, I just don't see shouts being the medium for that.

[Romeo Knight]

That is easy!

Romeo Knight: Skirt!
Westerling, Gibs etc.: Kilt!

omoroca: Naked with white socks.

[Romeo Knight]

People will always dislike comments which aren't of a congratulative stance - It's human nature. I know personally i have never responded to criticism very well and respond much better to positive re-enforcement. ?

That's right but a bit too simple. It absolutely matters who gives shouts in a negative or even unconstructive way. E.g. in my case, I'll always respect any kind of comment by people who remix by themselves - cos they know what they're talking about. Even the worst comment by musicians that I adore will not demotivate or upset me but instead stimulate me to do better next time.
But people who already prooved that they don't know much about guitar music or even guitar playing just make a fool of themselves when trying to judge my guitar skills.
I don't tell the butcher how to do his job - I can only tell if I like his schnitzels. Unless I'm a butcher, too.

[FunkyM]

Brother Carlo, if it's any consolation, I'd be thrilled to hear anything new from you, whatever style, genre or even if you played an accordion and bagpipes to make a tune, I'd still give it a listen!

On the subjext of objectivity, I know very little about what music is what, but I know what I like.

Yay DHS!

[tas]

People will always dislike comments which aren't of a congratulative stance - It's human nature. I know personally i have never responded to criticism very well and respond much better to positive re-enforcement. ?

That's right but a bit too simple. It absolutely matters who gives shouts in a negative or even unconstructive way. E.g. in my case, I'll always respect any kind of comment by people who remix by themselves - cos they know what they're talking about. Even the worst comment by musicians that I adore will not demotivate or upset me but instead stimulate me to do better next time.
But people who already prooved that they don't know much about guitar music or even guitar playing just make a fool of themselves when trying to judge my guitar skills.
I don't tell the butcher how to do his job - I can only tell if I like his schnitzels. Unless I'm a butcher, too.

But ain't that the world of reviewing in general? I mean say a reviewer of a top audio magazine reviews an album the chances are that he/she is not able to play all the instruments involved and is not able to provide technical details as to what you would wish - He would generally go on the feel of the track and to what parts he enjoyed or didn't.

For example those set up to review computer games probably have no idea how to write a game for love nor money they just know it's either good or bad to play as is music in general it's either enjoyable to listen to or not - You absolutely do not need to know what goes into making it to either like or dislike it.

I wouldn't tell a butcher how to do his job either - but if he gave me a fatty piece of sirloin that wasn't good enough to eat I'd most certainly tell him that it wasn't good enough for consumption despite me not knowing the finer details.

You can never dispose of the listening public just as simple as that. If this work was commercial stuff it's the listening public and not musicians that vote with their feet. If anything it's the listeners views that are far more important than anything.

[xo]

I agree with Tas. Music is more than a technical discipline. It's aesthetics and emotion.

[Condor]

To be honnest, I find your criticism (which is always negative &^%@@%^ ) great
Some negatice criticism turn to be positive while making other remixes.

[oj oscillation]

that`s the way i see it, too, tas and exo.
if i don`t get good feeling by listening to a tune it is meaningless how well played it was or what equipment was used or which style it should represent, etc.
i like the shoutouts, cause they mirror a good feelingfeedback people had.
at least, most of them, i believe.
for detailed analysys, the review section could be good enough.although, i don`t expect a rating there by a technical analysys on it.


by the way:

was reading back the reviews/shouts on my remixes.and i must say that i`m disappointed that some peepz gave me a good smiley on my f1 simulator remix.come on, it didn`t even earns a green one. this remix was alot of wasted lifetime and still is when i or you hear it again,it`s just too flat, boring, simply shit ( /me wondering why i continued working on, when 1st time notified it is bad).my deepest apollogize to mr. hubbard for ruining his great tune.
but i liked the bad smileys by the non musicians, cause that is what i feel too (emotionally and technically).

so bad shouts and reviews can also be true without beeing written by non musicians. they just have to be honest feelings.

regards

[DHS]

Ok, i will explain myself better:

It's not about having a tune getting positive or negative criticism.
Neither is about if the comment is done by a musician.
It's about *fairness*.

Some examples:
-I have cast good votes on machinae supremacy, romeo, even if i don't understand anything (and never will) about guitar playing and i'm not into rock and/or metal beyon occasionally listening something. BUT i recognize the amazing playing skills they have (and i i will never have) and in the case of RK the great deal of originality / innovation he puts in his music [ok, and also because he's RK ]. I would NEVER dream to bash one of their remixes only because they play in a style i'm not into or i can't fully understand. Yesterday i was listening, during a travel in my car, to MS/RK Mutants... and hey, i can't really understand the medium/average votes someone gave. That track is simply awesome. And i think that no one with an open view on music, who *likes* music, could give it something less than prays and a red smiley.
-I will never condone a comment like 'this is trance but too repetitive' on daxx remix, because it shows that who wrote that doesn't have the slighty background on what trance is. I would if the shouter said something simpler like 'i don't like it'.
-I don't like comments like 'he can do better than this'. Yes, maybe he could. But can anyone try to do something different whitout being discouraged in his attempt? Tell him what is wrong, not that he just sucked ass because 'he can do better than this'.
-'Dr.Fikalover has horribly stupid lyrics'. Of course he has. *Maybe* it's what al the song is about. BUT, please, tell me, isn't the VERY SAME about the 95% of the remixes with lyrics on RKO (and even in the commercial charts), with people taking themselves seriously? Should then it be 'relegated' only to Slayradio (everybody knows that slayradio is full of stupid people...) because it features 'horribly stupid lyrics' (in this case the fact that it may be a decent remix of a sid seems to be really of secondary importance, even the fact that it's something new, fresh). Ok, no problems, i didn't post anything else on rko, because i feel like my stupid music is much better belonging to Slayradio, where stupid music and stupid talking is on. But it's also full of stupid creative people who keeps his stupid mind open.
-And, god knows why, even if i didn't release anything else in the last year, i keep on get angry when i see a good mix like the daxx one treated this way... not that i didn't try. I spent months avoiding the charts...

Well, whatever.