Copyright, Piracy, Morale... whatever...

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 0:54

ZeBuK: NO!... not in all cases would the original owner have had an option of earning on it.... some people ARE poor enough to not having bought it, if he was to stay on the path of law, and others would simply have chosen to priorize theyr purchase differently if they had to pay for it....

Besides, piracy is really good advertisement that cost nothing.... or at least it cost perhaps what they loose by piracy... would Windows have become what it is today without piracy?... I believe I remember someone telling me, that even Microsoft has admitted to this fact...

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 0:57

Fair point, I really hadn't thought of that argument to it.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:01

ZeBuK: I'm not trying to defend piracy here... I guess I have to make that CLEAR!!!!.... I just personaly think, that the subject seems overhyped in many forums on the net and from the industry itself... teh industry I believe are NOT poor people!? ... sometimes it just sound like they worry too much if they get that extra bottle of champagne they want to polish their prestige, and blame piracy for it.... I really do not think that Stones have financial problems... I find it pathetic and selfish of them to squash a small band like that just to prove themselves KINGS....

On the other hand, it's sad when piracy hurts the small musician and software company that has to close business because of it.... that's why I hope people would have enough morale to know when to "steal" and when "not to steal", and when the well established and rich musician/company will know when to "close their eyes" and BE HAPPY SOMEONE LIKE WHAT THEY MADE!

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 1:05

razmo wrote:How would you guys look at me, if that was the case?

Bit tricky. If something had been stolen from someone you know then you're more likely to stand up and say something. For example, my brother uses Logic Platinum for making music and everything he uses is his own. He's put all his own hard work into making his music and if someone was to steal some of it for their own work without asking and/or giving credit then I'd be pretty pissed even though it wasn't my work that got nabbed.

I've had some of my work nabbed and at the same time been pissed that I wasn't asked or credited and flattered that someone would want to use something I made.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:18

I admit, that it's trickier when we discus credit.... certainly! ... it all depends on how it's used, if you've been asked about the usage etc... and on that front, I'm not sure what to think... I believe it depends a lot upon the special circumstance....

I guess in the last few posts I was more concerned with pirated software and sample CDs actually.

Also when I think about it.... why do people "steal" from others works? ... is it because they want to gain credit from others work? or is it because they want to put the original work in another context?... in most cases it's to put it in another context I believe.... becuase they feel a connection with the original work (at least that is why I remix C64 tunes)... should one not be honored also that others find your work magnificent enough for them to actually use it in their own artwork? and what's to be so jealous over that they make some money on it, if it's not really a competition to your original work? ... I believe that respect should be shown though, as is not the case with timbaland obviously.

In my view, the problem with Timbaland is his arrogance, and teh fact that it is wrong that HE earn money on it, and the original probably never earned anything.... Timbaland's moral here should have been to stretch an arm out to the original owner, and offered some payment.... but he obviosly feel himselvf raised above the rest....

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 1:21

I have to agree with you there as well.

I think some of it is also down to inspiration although how valid this point is I'm not sure - it's the only alternative reason I can think of. I've not made any tunes myself (only remixed) as I find it very hard to think of an original tunr that is any good. When I start humming something I usually find I end up humming some tune I've already heard.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:26

Actually I myself has been ripped off badly in the past... By Creative Labs...

I participated in their Creative Open MIDI Contest in 1996, and actually won the grand price back then.... all of the music in that competition had to be signed so that Creative could use the music for promotional gains after the competition, and it was up to the participant to cancel the usage of it after that one year....

Actually Creative Labs used my winning piece on the installation CD to their forthcoming new soundcards rigth after... the SoundBlaster Live! ... for severl years after, that tune was in the presentation part on the installation CD with the soundcard.... I NEVER recieved one bit of money from that.... and the contract stated it was for promotional usage only they could use it.... I believe, that when people have the installation CD, they have already purchased right?... so I asume it could NOT be called promotional usage, and thus I ought to have had some payment...

Creative sold millions of their sonudcard following the contest.... have I had just one dollar per card sold..... yeah... I'd be rich now

I even sent the case to the danish KODA twice... they never did anything about it...

Maybe Creative is just too big to wrestle with...

So yes... I know how it can feel when people use your work for own gains, so I'm not totaly ignorant.

Today I feel really sorry for E-Mu, that they had to be bought out by Creative Labs... Creative Labs has destroyed an otherwise very fine hardware sampler company.... sad story!

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 1:31

They can't pass it off as promotional because promotion is used to sell something. By the time they've got it they've already bought the product so I'd say it comes with the package in the same transaction.

I think the small print that stipulates the participant has to cancel the usage after one year is very sneaky. How many will keep track and remember? If, as a musician you're very active and produce lots of work that goes out how likely do you think you'd remember to cancel it? If I apply that to all the web production I take part in then I know for certain I'd forget.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:33

Exactly!... I've not cancelled up until know actually... but in this case I feel they have used my music in a way that was not even contracted... that was why I sent the case to KODA... why they never did anything about it I do not know, they never told me the first time, and just ignored me when I sent them the case a second time.

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 1:38

I think it could be down to the wording of the small print and other legal jargon.

I don't know what country you're in but our main telecommunications company has never been successfully sued. I found out why while I was working for them in the training session and the reason is that the basic meaning of their disclaimer states that they don't guarantee to provide a fault-free service.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:40

I know it's probably hard, which is also why I've given up on it... but I'll never forget

xo · Post by xo » 15/07/2007 - 1:43

I don't know about who'll benefit the most. Based on listening time, it could be quite fair. Imagine, even the casual remixer could actually be auto-commercial, if s/he wanted to. Noone would really mind (well, none of the tax payers).

I'm sure some quite clever tax distribution mechanisms could be found.

ZebUK · Post by **ZebUK** » 15/07/2007 - 1:45

I was thinking earlier how one would go about checking whether a sample is public domain or not?

I mean, songs in the charts would be easy to tell because they're so well known and it's obvious where the samples came from...

xo · Post by xo » 15/07/2007 - 1:46

As I see Creative, it's mostly a gamer company. It focuses on hardware accellerated 3D audio. If you're looking for high audio fideltity, you don't have to go to them, options are plenty, including solutions which can't be considered "sound cards" in any traditional sense.

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 15/07/2007 - 1:48

XO: it would certainly put some fun instead of jura into music making... people could stop worrying about it that much.... I think it's a rather good idear, and to some extend it is done in denmark allready as taxing is put on blank media to some extend... it just need to be much bigger in scope...

now some people would argue that they should not pay becuase they use less... but hey, it's like that with all tax... some use more than others be it church, education, medical etc... why not music and media when it's such a big problem...

but then again, I'm from a tax-heavy country ... guess it'll be hard to convince other countries about this