Fatal server crash (and the state of the scene)

[Analog-X64]

Damn, LaLa, it WAS you!!

Anyways, Western Digital is mostly crap. They are noisy and they crash a lot. Get a Seagate (Barracuda) instead. Reliable and quiet.

Its seems to be some kind of quality cycle with these company's, next year it will be Maxtor who is crap and than Segate after that, and than Western Digital will be good again.

[trace]

I think it was me, folks. I must've passed my bad karma over to Remix64.com

During the past month or so the following devices broke down in my house (most required replacements): washing machine, dishwasher, food disposer, water heater, my precious TiVo had a hard drive crash (that was painful!) (NOTE: it was a Western Digital HD), at work my Linux machine's HD crashed (yep, also a Western Digital), my cable modem started acting up, plus I also had a small accident with my car.

So, NATURALLY, after I decided to catch up on RKO and rated a whole bunch of new tunes with comments, Remix64's server crashed (and it also lost all my recent comments/ratings), probably at exactly the same time I've tried to look at the new Hülsbeck CD on C64Audio.com...

It was definitely me. Sorry, folks!

Keep away from me!!!!!!

[Vosla]

*Phew!*
And I thought after what happened at my end, it couldn't come worser.
I got a new nick: Pestilence (I can't give you the gruesome details)
and we have two cases of confirmed TBC infections around my working place.
But a server crash? HERE?! AAARRRGH!!! That's too much!

[Chris Abbott]

OK, I _did_ make a backup of the shop in its pretty-much latest form (beginning of May) when I copied the cart to somewhere else to create another version of it... although there's still some work to do, and the tracks that were lost have to be reconnected to the database: but I've got an automated way to do that (file hashes), which is cool.

In addition, the new shop will have the "download album" facility, and the search facility now works properly and presents you with a list of relevant products too.

I still haven't got time to add any new products this time around, though cued up for the next run are Loading, Ready Run, Visa Roster 1 + 2, Remix 64 vol 3 (preorder) and Eclipse of Mars, and compilation albums based on the games "Nux" and "Platypus", as well as some other compilation albums... so, the will is still there, since my backup to that other server saved me about two weeks of programming...

Shop will probably be back by Wednesday. I hope.

Chris

[Chris Abbott]

Although I said up there that the will is still there, given the cheap price of digital albums and tracks, I have to conclude that more people don't buy them because they're getting them free somewhere else. The price ought to be a non-issue by now, especially since we take Paypal. It's very disheartening, since as quickly as I remove the reasons for the excuses people used to use, they think of new ones.

Are too many tracks given away on Slay Radio? Should we just give away "singles" for each album? Did Mahoney get it absolutely right with the way the Visa Roster album was handled? I'm beginning to think so.

Sorry, rambling...

Chris

[Analog-X64]

Although I said up there that the will is still there, given the cheap price of digital albums and tracks, I have to conclude that more people don't buy them because they're getting them free somewhere else. The price ought to be a non-issue by now, especially since we take Paypal. It's very disheartening, since as quickly as I remove the reasons for the excuses people used to use, they think of new ones.

I still love purchasing CD's and having something tangable in my hands. As to why I dont buy more often? Just the funds are thinly spread. I love "Retro Gamer" and it costs me almost $200 (U.S.) for the annual subscription, I'm building a MIDI Box SID and that has cost me a few $$$ already.

There are quite a few items on C64Audio.com that are on my wish list which I hope to get to eventually.. I just hope the CD's/DVD's will still be available by the time I can order them.

Not making excuses but it is a small niche market and non existent here in North America...

I dont have an answer for you I'm afraid.

[Razmo]

I think that one of the problems with selling in your shop Chris is, that you have to remember that there are quite a bit of free material on RKO at the same time... Personaly I've never bought anything because ... well... I never got to it, when there is always new stuff comming out on RKO. I have to add though, that I've not gotten any of the commercial material anywhere else.... When it comes to paying money, people are weird... including myself I guess ... especialy with quality competition (which RKO is... weather you like it or not )... Of course much of the C64Audio material are much better mastered etc. but with the "goldnest" of RKO, I don't think most listeners care...

I can understand your frustration though... You'd have to have extremely outstanding material compared to RKO to make people crave and want... now I know that money is always the problem with these productions, but one way to differ would be to make DVD's with music videos for example... videos that could be shown on music TV and compete with mainstream etc.... I know I'm talking big money here, and that it would be a major mission to acomplish, but I'm afraid it's the only way I can see this scene go starwise (which I believe it could, if the advert money were there)

Let me ask you another question: Do you know how many of the scenes listeners are musicians themselves, and how many are just "ordinay" people? ... there is a major difference in that too. I think you'd have to target a major bunch of "normal" people to get anywhere near bigger sales. I can only talk for myself, but hearing really great music on a CD does not necessarily make me want to buy it... it in most cases make me want to do as good or better, and it motivates me to compose... not buy.

I'm afraid it will involve all the things many of us in the scene hates if you want this scene to rise to proper glory: mainstream techniques... music culture must be brainwashed into the target listerners... it must be cool and trendy. You'll have to play in all registers to get there (sadly)

Is this really what you want?

[Razmo]

If you do not care for bigtime sales, but just a scene related wellgoing sale, then why not stop having C64Audio as a standalone thing? ... what about collaborating with RKO? ... Music could be downloadable as MP3 at say 128bit compression, and then the option to buy directly from RKO and thus obtain a noncompressed version with much better quality at a reasonable price everyone would be willing to pay. maybe even some mastering could be involved if possible... afterall, it would be about making the listeners interrseted in buying.

It would be something to discuss heavily with all the composers and listeners in the scene, to find a proper solution everyone would be fine with (don't forget the listeners!).

After this, a heavy advertisement on the internet for the scene... something that can compete with other internet music shops... and with the great communty we got here, make it even better and interresting for the listeners... make them involved... make them want to be here!

[Chris Abbott]

You've may have fallen into the trap most people seem to of talking about "major sales": I know this is never going to get millions of pounds in sales: I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for enough f*cking money to pay the server bills, give the composers some royalties, and have some money to invest in equipment or music again. I haven't had enough spare money to invest in any item of musical equipment since the Karma in 2002. People seem to be unable to think in terms of "modest success", rather than "scratching at the crumbs of near-failure".

Since it looks like C64Audio.com will never succeed (apparently) on its own merits, perhaps I should press the charity angle?

Anyway, bearing in mind my support for all this activity, maybe I should remind myself: "No good deed goes unpunished".

The RKO idea is a rights nightmare, aside from the fact that Jan wouldn't go there in a million years.

All it needs for comfortable sales is for the people already interested in this music to stop being freeloaders and support the scene in a way in which they get something back too.

What if Rob Hubbard decided that he was fed up of his tunes being distributed free, because he needs sales from C64Audio.com for his retirement? What if the other composers decided that? It's royalties from C64Audio.com over the years that have allowed the situation continue. I always believed that true support involves GIVING. Not taking. I put that into action over the years, to support people. Apparently it's enough to support people by downloading a music track. I think you'll find some of the composers see it a bit differently, especially as they get older.

As you can tell, I'm getting very impatient with the whole "it's up to someone else, or you to spend money on advertising, or persuade new people, it's not up to me, I can get what I want for free"... but I guess people are gorged on C64 music, lazy and slothful.

I tell you, I'm this close | | to packing it all in, trashing the CDs and DVDs I have left and doing something which doesn't feel like I'm pissing my life away for people who just want to take and take. C64Audio.com was never a proper commercial business, because it played by the special rules of the scene: including supporting free "competitors", and doing stupidly extravagant things with money I didn't have.

*grrr*

[unprompted edit: and yes, I know that many of the people reading this have bought music, done a track for a CD, been to a live event, performed at a live event, done promotion on the radio, or sometimes all of those. Thank you, those people. You're the reason why my faith in humanity lasted this long. I'm talking here about the anonymous masses who download in their millions from RKO but can't afford 80p for a digital track]

[another unprompted edit: yes, Razmo, I know you were just trying to help, but you've essentially managed to diss the C64Audio.com content as only being as good as the stuff at RKO (the whole point of things at C64Audio.com is that they're part of albums, properly vetted and with much more work put into them than your average RKO track), remind me that sales have stalled on the ever-so-expensive DVD, and remind me that every single idea I ever had or tried to increase sales or interest has pretty much failed. Thanks. Probably not your fault you managed to mash all my hot buttons and fears of impending irrelevance at once.]

Chris

[Razmo]

Chris: I'm not dissing C64audio.com... I'm just telling you the facts... there is too much quality-work on RKO that people will go to C64audio.com and spend money on something, that they may get for free with just some less quality... I as you find this a shame actualy... now I've been telling you, that I want to make an album, and still want to... I as much as you would surely like to see C64audio blossom and thrive, but no matter the good spirit of it all, when money is involved, people just think differently... You might even ask yourself if this scene would be here, if it was all based on sales and money?... I'm afraid I do not think so...

And why? ... because as I said before; to make this blossom, you'd have to take actions to get there that rival all the other mainstream companies or at least all the internet shops... this aspect has no soul as we do here on Remix64, C64Audio and RKO... it's just hard cash thinking.

I think you're fighting an unfair battle Chris, and if I could "snap my fingers", you'd be up and goin' strong with C64audio.com if there were any small business company I'd like to see pull through, it's actualy yours.

Now to turn the negative moods, have you thought of other ways in wich to keep enough cash flowing to support the site? ... I get the impression that you just want it all to get around and have a little for getting new equipment? ... Are you targeting other people than those that visit the scene? ... what came of that google add?

I know it's a tough job to run this as a one man thing... have you thought about making C64audio.com a collaborate site of all the musicians on the scene? ... is it not in every remixers interrest to have a commercial site available to target "the outside world"? ... Do we REALLY need idiots like Timbaland, Nelly, Timberland and Madonna to get peoples attention? I believe that "two fingers are stronger than one". Now I'm DEFINITELY not a bussyness man... but what if those of the scene who had an interrest in making C64audio.com better (remixer and listeners as well) could join with funds, and thus get a share of anything earned through it? .. many people are talented and can contribute with stuff like graphics, code etc.?

I just don't think this is a task that you can take on yourself unless you have mega-cash to spend... it's the scene that ought to fight for the right to SID the ass of the general public!

[Razmo]

All it needs for comfortable sales is for the people already interested in this music to stop being freeloaders and support the scene in a way in which they get something back too.

It seem like you only want to focus on the scene? ... The scene is build around free C64 remixes, and not buying stuff... even though you probably will hate what I say now, C64audio com is not really the scene... it's a commercial sidechain of the scene which is why I came with the idear of making C64audio part of the scene that will target the outside world... I just don't believe keepin' inside this "scene bubble" will bring you anywhere neer the dream that all of us have; to make SID remixes more commercialy widespread.

In my opinion, the world need to see some musical diversite in the mainstream... I'm tired of Me Too Trance, HipHop, Rock and pop... I believe there is a big market for commercial electronic music (electronica), where skill and effort is the target... and I believe that especialy this scene has the guts to do it... we all grew up with the souds of rkaftwerk, Jarre, Vangelis etc. and we are the electronic brains of today as many from the nerd-times (Spectrum, C64 etc.) are the pioneers of todays computerboom... many are in the bussiness as graphic artists, coders and game musicians... If anyone should have the potential to get eletronica back on christmas wishing-lists... it's us.

[Razmo]

I for one, would surely participate in a joined effort to get us somewhere... I'm thinking that if those who want to, would pay a certain monthly fee, to be part of a C64Audio site with commercial interests outside the scene, we might have a chance, and some strong interrest in making it happen... I'd gladly participate with remixes, and even graphics for the site... others might have skills to make video material... etc. etc.

Stop targeting the scene as your customers, and make them the backbone of your dream. It's a daunting task to realise... I know.

[Razmo]

It'll require a major effort on everyones part... even Jan and RKO because with RKO being free, you'll have tremendous competition... If the scene was a "closed bubble" that you subscribed to monthly, and thus gained the privileges of free download from RKO alongside a fee from everything the scene could earn OUTSIDE the "bubble", then I think we might have a chance...

[Razmo]

Now think about it: How many sceners are there? ... how many people are subscribed here? ... how much would it take in monthly fees from everyone here to keep C64audio.com running WITHOUT any profit, but enough to make commercial attacks outside the "scene bubble"?

[Analog-X64]

I dont know if this means anything to you Chris, but I've always bought any Scene related CD from you (C64audio.com), the only other product that I bought from elsewhere because it was the Mind Candy 2 DVD but only because it was available locally.

Now I dont know how many of us there are who on ocassion will purchase from you, vs how many who silently just lurk in the backgrounds only interested in Free stuff.

Maybe RKO should become membership only and somehow tie into remix64.com where you have to at least have 10-20 posts before you can download stuff from RKO. Would certainly put a stop to freeloaders.