Should C64Audio.com try the "Radiohead" model?

[Chris Abbott]

I've been thinking, and I want genuine feedback.

Do you think C64Audio.com should adopt the "Radiohead" model for music? The way that would work for CDs is that it would charge postage, and whatever the person wanted to pay for the CD (but you would only be able to pay by Paypal for over £1.50, since Paypal fees are really bad for small amounts, you could pay by credit card for the small amounts).

I haven't run this past the composers or CD artists, so I'd like to hear from them as well.

Chris

[Tonka]

Nnnnng!

Must...resist...giving...honest...opinion...until...in...a...better...mood...

[Chris Abbott]

So that's a "no" then

Chris

[Chris Abbott]

It really could go either way here: I don't want to alienate the composers or artists, but I do want to talk about alternative business models. My mind really is open.

Chris

[Tonka]

So that's a "no" then

Chris

Haha! Not necessarily!

What is the Radiohead model? You mean the band?

More importantly, is there any evidence at all that these models actually *work* beyond people paying the bare minimum for an artists blood, sweat, tears, inner turmoil, alienation from family, lack of concentration at work, self loathing, hyper self-criticism, etc?

(See - I warned you, didn't I)?!

[leoni]

But in that case, isn't it better that they pay the bare minimum instead of nothing?

I don't know.. I bought the Radiohead album and I thought it was a neat idea. Then it's up to you to decide what you think its worth for you and all that..

[Chris Abbott]

So that's a "no" then

Chris

Haha! Not necessarily!

What is the Radiohead model? You mean the band?

More importantly, is there any evidence at all that these models actually *work* beyond people paying the bare minimum for an artists blood, sweat, tears, inner turmoil, alienation from family, lack of concentration at work, self loathing, hyper self-criticism, etc?

(See - I warned you, didn't I)?!

Well, the model appears to work for Magnatunes for quite a while, albeit with a minimum amount. Apparently people are more generous than expected in many cases. I think the fact Radiohead sold 12 million copies says a bit more about the publicity and novelty than about the business model, of course.

I don't want anyone to feel threatened by this discussion as I said: I just want to chew it over and get the relevant facts and feelings on board. Since you're so important to the future of C64Audio.com anyway, I guess your views have quite a lot of weight... (you're not alienating your family are you?? Don't do that!!!!!)

The main thing seems to be that the people who would buy willingly will pay anyway, sometimes more than you'd ask for if they know they're doing it genuinely out of choice.

I've personal experience of one guy (a guy I know in Russia, of all places) paying £100 for the Radiohead album, to make up for all the people he knew would be getting it for nearly free.

Chris

[Tonka]

But in that case, isn't it better that they pay the bare minimum instead of nothing?

Yes - good point.

What we musn't forget though is that Radiohead will probably make X times as much on touring live performances than they will make on the sales of the record. For some people (like most artists here), the recording is 'it'.

If RH had to depend upon sales of the record alone, I'm certain they wouldn't be quite so 'experimental'...

And to top it all, I've just typed Radiohead into a warez engine and been awarded with a choice of 7 places I can download it for free. Mr. Pirate will *still* go here for his copy whilst a lot of others who would have normally paid a tenner will gleefully pay the minimum, their concience and credibility still intact...

There is a guy at work who has downloaded more Hip-hop than he can PHYSICALLY listen to even if he spent the WHOLE of his life listening to each album from start to finish. He continues to 'collect' even knowing this fact...

[Vosla]

Seems I have language troubles here so please excuse me...

Does this model say:
Pay the postage plus anything you feel fit to pay for the CD?

I can't see it work well that way...

[Chris Abbott]

It's certainly true (and I've come across a similar kind of discussion in the country music scene, which actually seems analagous to ours except bigger) that we don't have as many options for income streams to keep going as people like Radiohead (although by all accounts the sales of the music have done that for them anyway, since they get to keep a large amount of it).

But yes, we can't afford to use recorded music as a "loss leader" for more profitable activities, since we don't have any (well, technically club nights that relied on the chip sound would probably work, but it would be very stressful to run and a bit risky: that's a whole different issue, admittedly).

Chris

[Tonka]

Man, I really don't want to keep coming over as negative here (I WILL stop typing in a minute 'cos I'm really not in the best of places tonight), but didn't Stephen King do something similar once with an online novel.

The key word in the above sentence being 'once'.

Genuine question - is the bare minimum you are suggesting enough to cover CD duplication, printing of inlays, extra vocalists/musicians who will need paying, etc?

[Chris Abbott]

Another thing to mention is that one of the problems I have is that I have too many CDs in stock which, at the current rate of sales, will never ever be sold. Giving them away is inadvisable: first because there are VAT implications, and secondly because of the postage and packing issue (and third, because people distrust stuff valued as "free": they'd prefer to nick it and pretend they made a net gain.

Of course, for artist CDs, it would be inconsiderate not to ask the artist if he was happy with that model if it went ahead.

Most of the C64 album artists have already put the work in, and would like to be "heard" more, I guess.

I'm wondering if this would work if some of the older CDs were given this treatment. For myself, I'd be delighted to give away Dreamscapes as long as someone covered the P&P (although I think I could probably become a successful New age artist if I wanted

I think Stephen King gave his novel away and asked for donations, didn't he? Slight difference. I know that model (or a variant of it) didn't work for Scott Adams' e-book "God's Debris", in that he gave it away to try and persuade people to buy the sequel from Amazon. It was downloaded a shitload of times, but only about 20 people bought the sequel in that timeframe.

This is slightly different, in that no one is getting stuff for "free": there's still a little hurdle to jump.

In terms of the economics of a CD, it would depend on traffic levels: the break-even point is fairly low on these things: the main challenge is in generating enough income to cover costs from month-to-month and generate new money for new projects (and royalties, of course). There's also the fact that there's a non-zero chance of other income for a given album, such as radioplay, use in media, etc, especially for any album which had vocalists.

Chris

[Chris Abbott]

Here's another blue-sky idea: what if prices above a certain level got the CD thrown in?

Would that have a different psychological effect to putting a minimum price on the CD version?

I wish we have a computer simulation of this

Chris

[Tonka]

Here's another blue-sky idea: what if prices above a certain level got the CD thrown in?

Would that have a different psychological effect to putting a minimum price on the CD version?

I wish we have a computer simulation of this

Chris

What - like a 'secret' level?

[Ph0B1uS]

Here's another blue-sky idea: what if prices above a certain level got the CD thrown in?

Would that have a different psychological effect to putting a minimum price on the CD version?

I wish we have a computer simulation of this

Chris

Isn't that system already in effect for the newer releases?
I am however a fan of physical cds odd as it may sound so I like the idea.

I think the pay whatever you think it's worth-idea might work too but I prefer the latter one.