Current SID "trackers"

[pfk]

Hey!

I just listened to the 8Bit Mayhem podcast featureing compo tunes from X2008, and it left me very impressed with the sounds the SID musicians of today are creating. This makes me very curious about a couple of things

1. Is it possible to explain in a simple way how Mixer & co. are able to play back 4 channels of 8 bit samples on a single SID channel using a regular NMI? Does it involve synthesizing the sampled output using SID waveforms?

3. What other SID inventions / innovations have people come up with since the early nineties?

2. What "regular" trackers / music routines do people use to make music today? And are any of them available to the public?

I'm very impressed with the skills people like Fanta, Dane, GRG, Jammer, etc. show off! Filters, ring modulations and drum sounds have come a long way since I tried to make SIDs 15-20 years ago

What does the rest of the Remix64 community think?


- pfk

[trace]

I agree, the ppl that stil does tunes on SID is a bounch of amazing trackers/musicians, tweaking and squeezing out the last drop of stuff available in the SID
I would also like to know what trackers or whatever on the c64 Fanta and everyone is using
Some may program theire own special made program for theire purpose...

My guess in the sound makeing is to run the track really fast to be able to do those special sounds, but that is just my though

I also would like to see that cover of boomfunk mc's freestyler in the program it's been done in, cause that one is AMAZING!

[LMan]

Holy cow pfk, you're right - "Fanta in space" for example sounds like an amiga mod rather than a sid..!
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72563

ReSID and Fast SID emulators utterly fail to reproduce the sound btw, so it is prolly a pretty new digi technology. Can anyone enlighten us how it works?

[trace]

OMG that sid? lol is amazing
How, what, where did he do that track?

[LMan]

Check this out:
http://c64music.blogspot.com/2008/11/ne ... utine.html

[Analog-X64]

I've been reading all the comments, on multiple sites and the main complaint is that Musically it didnt sound as good as the other entries. I think people are missing the Technical Achievement and the fact that this is new, and future SID's made with this method will sound better.

[Romeo Knight]

I think here it's straight coming down to what's it all about. Using samples might sound more advanced technology-wise but they won't ever beat the expression you can program into the SID. That's what makes it special and why it can inspire people even today - and not only nostalgia geeks. Well, mostly not. I doubt it will make future SIDs sound better. It will make SIDs sound more like MODs.
More static. Although it's impressive programming, without any doubt.

[pfk]

I'm glad to see some more people wanting to discuss this topic I've been listening to the 8Bit Mayhem podcast with recordings from the X2008 music compo for awhile, and so far I think Romeo Knight hi spot on. I can't hardly believe the technical acheivement, and I'm amazed at the programming / algorithm skills. But still, once you're using samples it's not really SID any more, is it? Composers will have to use this technology wisely, or they'll wind up making noisy amiga mods rather than real sid tunes.

But I still have to say that the filtered sample channels (particularly in Mixer's X2008 tune) sound amazing. Really gives me goose bumps.

I'm exited to see what people can achieve with SID and samples in the future, but I can't see myself getting by without a hefty load of ring modulations and arpeggios

Any other opinions? And has anybody got a clue about the algorithms they use to mix the samples?


- pfk

[LMan]

Why was Galway cheered for his fart-esque digi drums in the 80? Because doing SIDs is also about breaking the limits, and this is a tremendous push over the accepted limits that existed until now. Good thing about this new technology is that there's still 2 SID channels left, so it's up to the artist to make something really clever with it.

Frankly I can't believe why such a fantastic achievement gets so much negative feedback. Wouldn't have happened if this were the early 90s or something. Personally, the C64 still amazes me since there's still new stuff to be done with it you'd never think is possible. Check this out for example: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72550

It's like if there'd be a tool that would enable the Amiga to play 16 channel 16 bit 44khz samples and people would moan "oh no we'll miss our crunchy 8 bit sound - it made Amiga mods special.". Oh well I think many commenters over at csdb are generally spoilt and extremely picky

[Analog-X64]

The specs outline that you can filter both SID channels and Samples with 4 channels of 8-bit samplerate, digi playback and 2 channels of SID synth sound.

It should help usher a new type of SID Sound rather than a poor sounding Amiga mod, which has been suggested on other sites.

Imagine from this perspective...replacing the Drum Track of a standard SID with a filtered Kick, Snare and Bass and use the remaining 2 SID Synth sounds for that expressive lead type of sounds we have all come to love and enjoy.

Who knows, this might attract new fans/audience to the scene, Fanta's entry gives us a small glimpse of what is possible with this new technology.

I would certainly take a shot at it, if a Tracker or Editor was publicly provided, remember back in the day, this type of thing would certainly have been kept secret and details not given out.

[Chris Abbott]

Bearing in mind how well served the C64 scene is for music, demos, free games and all, I think the entire scene is a bit spoilt and picky now

[Tonka]

Half the problem with the SID scene is the now huge diversity in age/musical background that the chip attracts. Most of the Timbaland inspired 'chip kiddy's' probably think that Rob Hubbard is a science fiction writer.

I'm constantly impressed by new innovations within the C64 scene (mainly the hardware ones - 1541 Ultimate and the new C64TPC) but STILL nothing makes the hairs prickle like a good dose of Hubbard & Galway on a skanky old 6581 chip.

I'll openly admit that I'm a sentimental old fool, though...

[Romeo Knight]

Why was Galway cheered for his fart-esque digi drums in the 80? Because doing SIDs is also about breaking the limits, and this is a tremendous push over the accepted limits that existed until now. Good thing about this new technology is that there's still 2 SID channels left, so it's up to the artist to make something really clever with it.

Frankly I can't believe why such a fantastic achievement gets so much negative feedback. Wouldn't have happened if this were the early 90s or something. Personally, the C64 still amazes me since there's still new stuff to be done with it you'd never think is possible. Check this out for example: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72550

Don't see that as negative feedback. Again, the programming skills demonstrated here are simply amazing.
But, you know, people grew up. This is a technology demonstration rather than musical improvement, and nowadays I'm not
the technology freak anymore, I keep the focus on the artistic side of SIDs, MODs or any kind of source.
I never loved Arkanoid because it uses samples - in fact I didn't know it the first few times I listened to it.
The sounds Galway used don't even sound audibly like samples IMO - they just sound right in place, no matter how
they've been created. I believe that's the essence of the magic of this SID, not the knowledge of new technology implemented.
But you're right, it's all about the artist using the new possibilities tastefully. I guess "Fanta in space" is just a bad
example because it reminds people too much of AMIGA sound. Arkanoid doesn't.

It's like if there'd be a tool that would enable the Amiga to play 16 channel 16 bit 44khz samples and people would moan "oh no we'll miss our crunchy 8 bit sound - it made Amiga mods special.".

Yes - because if I'd wanna listen to 16 bit sound I put in a CD.
I'll throw in another (daring) comparison: It's like putting 23" chrome rims on an old, rattly car which stands next to your collection of Lamborghinis. It might shine a bit more but still looks downright ugly.

[LMan]

Check out http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72678

The new sound routines appear to be working on hoxs64 Emulator (set Sound Settings to "Resample"):
http://www.hoxs64.net/Default.aspx

[FunkyM]

Blimey, It works too!

Now there's a Christmas gift for ya!