The cost of vintage synths.

[Doddsy]

I think the cost of vintage synths - pre midi are a bit crazy these days. Sure we have the Prophet V and the Moog commanding a princely sum as they are classics, but these days I'm finding on Ebay, any synth that seems to have the analog and pre-midi tag are becoming overated in terms of cost. Most importantly your getting it second hand. A 30 year old synth has obviously done the rounds and could pose you a few problems.
The technology is outdated they require a lot of patchleads to get everything working and communicating to sync each synth, tuning can be a problem for synths on a live performance that have not been serviced.
Example; though these undoubtly are;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt5AjT_AaLY

I don't know why synth makers don't start producing more of their old hardware synths again if there seems to be such a market for that pure analog sound. I remember in the mid 80's when these vintage synths were being sold for next to nothing because they weren't in vogue and midi /sampling was the new technology. I noticed someone is selling a 25 year old Yamaha Cs-01 for 200 quid, yet a Novation superbasstation rack can be bought for half the price.

One thing I will say is that they sure do look great on stage and all that tweeking provides endless hours of fun!

[MartinStatic]

Hah its funny as soon as I read the first bit of your post and seen the Youtube link, I had a feeling that it was going to be that video, it's true though, the prices are a getting a bit stupid for something that may cost half the price to get repaired.

Either way, I'm a fair ways off from ever getting one =]

[Analog-X64]

The Price is according to what the Market will pay for.

If people stopped paying the high prices, than sellers would have to reduce their prices.

I remember seeing a TB-303 back in the 90's for $150 at a local shop and Than years later, they were selling for $1200+ on Ebay.

[Doddsy]

Yeah I think the TB303 commands crazy prices these days for a plastic box that has a very dated sound. Though you do get that sequencer and the authentic acid sound!

The Sh101 commands a good price too considering it has no patch storage, its monophonic, has 1 VCO and no midi or internal effects though there are upgrades which means the cost goes up again! I remember using one in school in the 80's, the noise generator was cool to listen too and the arp made me compose a piece like On The Run by Pink Floyd.

Talking about crazy prices, the best one I've seen has to be the Yamaha ShS-10 keytar. I've seen these retail on ebay £200 plus. They aren't velocity sensitive, have small keys and have the same sound FM engine as the PSSR series that being just 2-op. What is relevant to this site was they were bundled with the C64 during the early 90's as part of a music pack so their value has increased about 200%. Now if it was a Yamaha KX5 or a Lync Controller I could understand the asking price!

[Razmo]

Actually the reason they cost that much, is because they are POPULAR old analog synthesizers... the Moogs, The Arps, The bigger Rolands (Jupiter 8, TB-303 etc)... it's simply some kind of "prestige" kind of phenomenon.

You can get lots of old analog gear out there, that has somehow went into "The book of forgotten synths", that will do a very well produced analog sound... funnily enough, most of the most expensive vintage gear, is the most quirky and undstable of them all atually.

There are many analog or analog hybrid synths from the 80's and 90's that are much more stable than the older ones, have much more power and features, but still sound VERY analog! And that can be had these days for almost nothing...

And many current synth manufacturers also make analog synths these days, that are one hell of a lot more stable than the old ones... like Vermona, Dave Smith Instruments, MFB etc... surely some of these are pricey, but they do generaly not cost that much more than their digital competition, and in my opinion sound much better (a mater of taste of course).

Usually, if you want analog at a low price, you'll have to look for the monophonic ones... MFB make very cheap analog synths and drummachines. Dave Smith Instrumetns Evolver, and Mopho are superb, and sound stunning.

If you want Polyphonic Analog synths you have to be willing to spend a bit more though... but Vermona, Dave Smith Instruments, Jomox and many other makes these, and sound as good as the old vintage ones.

If you want dead cheap analog polysynths you can look for some nice machiones from the 80's like:

Oberheim Matrix 1000
Roland MKS-50
Waldorf Microwave 1
Ensoniq ESQ-1
Ensoniq Mirage
Korg Poly-800
Korg EX-8000
Roland Junos, JX8P etc.

there are probably more, you just have to forget about the Vintage Syndrome and believe that those are the only machines that will "do the sound!"... shure, if you want autheticity you have to get the real thing (we all know that from SID 6581 right? ).

And by the way: solder a MIDIBox 6582 will give you a nice 8voice SID polysynth as well, and if you can do the soldering yourself, it's cheap!

[Commie_User]

You could always try emulation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... og+&aqi=g5. That searches for free Moog emulators which can run on any PC powerful enough.

Virtual Instruments, or VSTi, are these days faithful software reproductions of all the old gear. Some are free, some aren't, some are good, some aren't. But they often beat paying silly money for old pre-MIDI gear.

Prestige aside, there's little to top plugging in your MIDI keyboard to the PC, via the joystick port, and start jammin' with all those funky old sounds.

You can play in realtime, with effects on top if you please, through the Cantabile tool, into which the VSTi is loaded. It's free and easy to set up: http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/

And some synth manufacturers are indeed making their old sounds available again, such as Korg or Yamaha, though these usually tend to be integrated into the newer keyboards.

[Razmo]

You could always try emulation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... og+&aqi=g5. That searches for free Moog emulators which can run on any PC powerful enough.

Virtual Instruments, or VSTi, are these days faithful software reproductions of all the old gear. Some are free, some aren't, some are good, some aren't. But they often beat paying silly money for old pre-MIDI gear.

Prestige aside, there's little to top plugging in your MIDI keyboard to the PC, via the joystick port, and start jammin' with all those funky old sounds.

You can play in realtime, with effects on top if you please, through the Cantabile tool, into which the VSTi is loaded. It's free and easy to set up: http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/

And some synth manufacturers are indeed making their old sounds available again, such as Korg or Yamaha, though these usually tend to be integrated into the newer keyboards.

Sure you can always use softsynth reproductions, but in my opinion they don't even get close to the creamy and warm sound of the old analog machines in ANY way... this does not mean they sound bad at all, but they just do not emulate the organic nature of a real analog filter, and especialy when it is replicas of older machines, and you have the real hardware device to compare, you instantly hear why many hardware freaks choose the old machines in favor of the newer software versions.

Maybe it's just me, but I rarely use any kind of digital synth for bass anymore, since analog hardware just sound so much "better" (in my ears that is)... the only digital hardware box I'd use for bass would be an old Yamaha DX7 or TX81Z... not even FM softsynths can beat a trusty old TX81Z in punchyness...

All is good in their own way, but hardware analog gear will always have it's charm and character... plenty of analog machines are created even today because they are in demand. I'd still like to hear a softsynth able to mimic a real Moog analog ladder-filter or even just a Waldorf Pulse Bass/Lead synth...

For me it's not about prestige at all... I would NEVER EVER pay the price they want for a used TR808/909, a TB-303 or a Memory Moog or Jupiter8... the prices are rediculous, but there is plenty of other options out there in real analog sound, that does not empty your wallet... so... not prestige, it's all about the SOUND.

[Commie_User]

Well, it's horses for courses. Harmonic distortion inherent in analogue gives you that creamy warmth which is part of the 'retro' experience. And it all helps.

Having said that, emulators continue improving. Hammond B4, for example, provides a smashing set of facsimile organ sounds which sometimes fit a mix better than my proper Hammond would, and vice-versa.

As for the C64, I prefer to use both VST and the real thing, for the maximum variety possible.

[Razmo]

Well, it's horses for courses. Harmonic distortion inherent in analogue gives you that creamy warmth which is part of the 'retro' experience. And it all helps.

Having said that, emulators continue improving. Hammond B4, for example, provides a smashing set of facsimile organ sounds which sometimes fit a mix better than my proper Hammond would, and vice-versa.

As for the C64, I prefer to use both VST and the real thing, for the maximum variety possible.

Exactly... you use the equipment that gets the job done, and some people have different requirements... first of, me being a Jarre fan (early albums), I simply cannot find any digital synths (hardware or software) that will give that inherent "organic" flavour i want as a standalone device, so for me it's the real deal... sometimes you can give digital equipment an analog feel by routing them through tubes-amplifiers or analog filters if you do not have a dedicated analog synth... this actually work pretty well... just throw some strings through an analog ensemble effect and a Smallstone Phaser followed by a delay, and you're close to Jarre land already.

I just asumed that the author of this thread was specificly searching for cheap analog gear, so that is why I wrote some examples, and omitted any softsynths (even though you're right... plenty of good ones emulating the old gear).