Commodore Remix

Chris Abbott wrote:

Razmo wrote:Why are you putting so much effort into this, that you end up depressed!?

And that, my friend, is the million dollar question. Or rather the free downloadable question.

C64 music used to make me happy, and excited. I had great times with Kenz and Boz. Exciting times. We were going to change the world.

It's all gone. It's been six years since I was last pleased by the reaction to anything I did.

Technically there's still a lot left that C64Audio.com could do: R64 vol 3, Tonka's stuff, Moog's stuff, other micromusic stuff... stuff which really used the SID. Compilations like Last Ninja for digital download. All that stuff is intellectually a good idea. I've got to talk to Tonka about this stuff, since at the moment he seems to be the only hope that C64Audio.com has for continuing doing anything, and he at least has far more energy and optimism than I do currently. I dunno, maybe once I talk to him I'll catch his enthusiasm.

Maybe I'm just suffering very late Boz-withdrawal symptoms

Chris

What is it that you really like about this scene Chris? ... is it the dream of profit, or is it the same as I; a nice and friendly place with others who worship the SID and the old tunes of the 80's C64 era? ... a place with likeminded people?

If it's the first option, I feel with you... then it might not be so good, but if it's the last one, I believe all that would still be here in some form, even if you had to "turn the key"... as I said before; I admire your efforts immensely, but just do NOT let it take you down!

I'd say; if the original composers want this to work... then they should get their fingers out their rear end, and help out instead of just letting one man take the whole burden. Now please forgive me... I know some are like Reyn for example... his efforts are huge! but the major icons like Hubbard, Daglish, Grey, David etc. etc. leave a lot to be wished for... if they care for their old work, then why does Hubbard say things like "Hey! you don't expect me to remember them do you!?" on the video of his piano performance?... to me that is a sign that he really is not that much into it anymore...

merman wrote:Razmo, I haven't understood your attitude all the way through this thread, and that latest post about the composers "working" for the scene proves it.

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


The C64 remix scene is always going to be a niche market, and Chris is the one who helped carve it out. Sure we'd all like it to be a bigger niche, and not have to put up with the underminers digging their way in to steal nuggets from our rich seam of talent, but running around the cave shouting "What are we going to do?" isn't helping.

Err, got carried away with the underground metaphor. Back on track.

Let Chris do what he does. Let the bandwagon roll on, even if it hasn't picked up many new passengers.

Merman: I can see your point... now I know that this is just a niche market... of course ... but as I have understood this topic, it has problems being even a niche market? ... if the original artists want this niche market to pay of, I don't see the hurt in them participating to make it more interresting for us?

Why not explain to the composers, that if they want this to work better, they could participate?... make remixes or new material? ... participate in the forums? ... be at the gatherings at Bit Live EVERY time? ... it's called promotion.

Now some might say that no one should force them to do these things if they don't want to, and I agree with that... BUT!!!! if they lack interrest in bettering their chances, I see it as they do not really care for their work, and I really cannot see why they should be paid royalties for not caring while their contractor Chris, is gettin' grey-haired before his time trying to make everyone happy!?

Over the years the composers have been very supportive, as a rule, and grateful for whatever crumbs have been thrown their way by CD sales and the like. They've done remixes, they've attended live events (sometimes without even travel expenses), they've gladhanded the crowds... but yes: some composers are deeply sceptical about whether this scene amounts to anything. I always hoped it would be successful enough to prove them wrong. To them, success of the scene is measured by the success of C64Audio.com. It's a negative feedback loop.

And let's face it, what other branch of music is there where the audience makes these kinds of demands?

I guess since I've been saying it's all about the composers I've kind of painted myself into a corner if I say "well, they've contributed the music, what else do you want, blood?".

All I really needed from the CD shop was enough back to buy equipment, pay my bills, release new products and feel enthusiastic and worthwhile.

None of those things have really happened, despite earlier bailouts during my crisis of 2004 when I got help from Slay, Boz, Skitz, Kenz and numerous others (which I haven't forgotten).

At its heart, all I wanted was for C64Audio.com to be a nice thing that made me feel happy rather than sad: and if it paid for some extra music making or an extra cake for the cat or the kids, then great, a reward for a job well done.

It would have worked if it wasn't for you meddling kids.

Er, hang on, wrong cliche...

Chris

LMan wrote:Believe it or not: I have a similar attitude regarding music and rights. But it's also neither up to me or you to decide what they wish to do with their intellectual property rights, and having a different opinion does not elevate us above law.

Also, let's hypothetically ignore their rights. It would be a god damn shame if C64Audio.com was to close down, wouldn't it. Personally, in 30 years or so, I'll be happy to have a bunch of physical audio CDs to remind me that this remix scene was far more than just a download site and a forum. The BITLives, the Remix64 site (was inspired by c64audio), hell most of the scene owes a LOT to C64Audio.com... and the composers.

The attitude you display towards the original composers reminds me of the scene in "Life of Brian":

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

I'll give you that one LMan.... I love Monty Python

I boh respect and admire what theoriginal composers did in the past... and I can surely owe them in income from this scene without lifting a finger, if the money is there... my concern stops though, when they are leaning back and expecting money to flow in withhout doing anything to better the situation themselves while Chris is getting depressed from trying to make things work, and the whole scene is in jeopardy for all of us!

Can they not help in any way, if they care about their work?

To be brutally honest, nothing they could do would make a dent in the problem.

Seriously, it's true.

Chris

Did you know that Rob Hubbard has done a remix of Commando as an official Demo for Reason 4.0?

http://www.propellerheads.se/

go to reason 4.0, then click 'what is reason' and then click 'sound of reason'.....

Chris

Chris Abbott wrote:Did you know that Rob Hubbard has done a remix of Commando as an official Demo for Reason 4.0?

http://www.propellerheads.se/

go to reason 4.0, then click 'what is reason' and then click 'sound of reason'.....

Chris

Rob Hubbard did that remix? or one of propeller heads guys??

Rob Hubbard himself.

Chris

Chris Abbott wrote:

merman wrote:Razmo, I haven't understood your attitude all the way through this thread, and that latest post about the composers "working" for the scene proves it.

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


The C64 remix scene is always going to be a niche market, and Chris is the one who helped carve it out. Sure we'd all like it to be a bigger niche, and not have to put up with the underminers digging their way in to steal nuggets from our rich seam of talent, but running around the cave shouting "What are we going to do?" isn't helping.

Err, got carried away with the underground metaphor. Back on track.

Let Chris do what he does. Let the bandwagon roll on, even if it hasn't picked up many new passengers.

Thanks Andrew, though actually the wagon feels a bit light these days... and I did kind of provoke the discussion by appearing to be even more commercially suicidal than usual... (which, to be truthful, is exactly how I feel).

I'm not even sure the situation is fixable. I can't force people to unhear the thousands of remixes they've heard over the years. I can't force them to be excited by new remixes. And the scene isn't really growing in terms of the fanbase, who are also aging. It would be nice if there was a whole new demographic out there who loved SID music but who had managed to miss this scene. I used to believe that. But unless they're the micromusic lot (who don't seem the nostalgic type, oddly), I think our chances of reaching them are fairly remote without doing something radically different, without a budget.

I wonder how sales would go, if Hubbard, Daglish and the others did some remixes!?

Did you notice that Rob Hubbard PERFORMED on the Back in Time Live DVD? Did you notice that Ben Daglish PERFORMED on the Back in Time Live DVD?

Did you BUY one of the over-600 unsold DVDs I have in my loft?

There's your answer.

Sorry if that was a bit harsh, though. I know you're trying to cheer me up in some strange, indefinable way.

Chris

Don't worry Chris I'm debating, so I'm expecting counteraction from you.

You are absolutely right... I'v not bought anything... and I don't feel I should just because the scene needs it... that's charity in disguise, and will NOT remove the real problem. Then I'd rather see a submission fee for using RKO or something similar.

Maybe this is where I see things differently? ... I came to this scene because I saw a community with likeminded people, nice to chat with, and listen to a lot of nostalgica via RKO and participate with my own FREE remixes... at first I did not see C64audio.com ... I did not come here to purchase anything at all... I came here to be part of the free scene I saw.

Now I then learn that our scene is dependant on more than was my first impression... that it need support to stay legal... and now I'm supposed to feel bad because I have not supported something I did not know I had to support to enjoy the scene... I don't like being seen as a greedy leech that just take (and participate) without buying anything, and especially when I entered here without knowing... What should I do now that I know then then? should I politely "dismember" myself from the scene because I realised that things was not the way I thought it to be, or should I "tip in"? ... Let's just say that I've become more aware of the problem as it is, and that this will draw my attention more to C64audio to see, if anything catch my interrest than I did before... and maybe this is exactly what you need of the sceners to get the wheels turnin'?

Now don't get me wrong... I'd buy something if I found it interresting enough, just like with any other shop I could go into... but I'll never buy something just to support, and I don't believe that this is what you want either Chris? ... I have a few CDs that I might look into very soon actually, because they are good production value, and catch my taste... but prepare to send to Denmark... I like physical things

Again, your perception of how things are is slightly faulty... both Ben Daglish and Rob Hubbard contributed to the first two Back in Time CD's, and I'm sure there are more examples of the composers being INVOLVED. The same goes for the live events - I'm sure they all would have liked to be there every time, but real life has this habit of getting in the way. They've done their bit by creating the original tunes that inspire this whole scene.

I'm not going to tell you to BUY NOW to "support" the scene. That should be your choice. The CD's should interest you, from a musical point of view and an historical point of view, as someone who is interested in remixes.

Fan of dance music? Instant Remedy
Fan of concept albums and "grand" productions? Back in Time 3 and Remix64 Volume 2
Something to put a smile on your face? The Blithe, the Blend & The Bizarre
Remixes with clever lyrics in a wide variety of styles? It's Binary Baby
Seeing what the composers and fans look like, and hearing them perform live? The Back in Time Live DVD
Rich textures? Karma64

There's something to suit all tastes.

merman wrote:Again, your perception of how things are is slightly faulty... both Ben Daglish and Rob Hubbard contributed to the first two Back in Time CD's, and I'm sure there are more examples of the composers being INVOLVED. The same goes for the live events - I'm sure they all would have liked to be there every time, but real life has this habit of getting in the way. They've done their bit by creating the original tunes that inspire this whole scene.

I'm not going to tell you to BUY NOW to "support" the scene. That should be your choice. The CD's should interest you, from a musical point of view and an historical point of view, as someone who is interested in remixes.

Fan of dance music? Instant Remedy
Fan of concept albums and "grand" productions? Back in Time 3 and Remix64 Volume 2
Something to put a smile on your face? The Blithe, the Blend & The Bizarre
Remixes with clever lyrics in a wide variety of styles? It's Binary Baby
Seeing what the composers and fans look like, and hearing them perform live? The Back in Time Live DVD
Rich textures? Karma64

There's something to suit all tastes.

well... maybe you're right... I did not know that they contributed that much back then... but why have they stopped interrest in this scene then? ... Now it seems that Hubbard will do demo's for REASON, but I'm just thinking why he did not release this Commando track on C64audio as well!? ... actually I'm amazed that he did this tune in this style... i thought he had forsaken all electronic for the sake of mighty orchestral

To lift the curtains on my interrest, I've been thinking about Marcel's SIDology, and Reyns BBB. These are some of what inspire me

Propellerheads commissioned that remix for their own exclusive use, simple as that. Commercial transaction.

If there was enough money in it to justify the time spent (which is important when you're a professional!), he'd a whole album like that tomorrow. But because there isn't, he won't.

Chris

Chris Abbott wrote:Propellerheads commissioned that remix for their own exclusive use, simple as that. Commercial transaction. Chris

Thats pretty cool, nice to have a remix by the legendery composer.

Chris Abbott wrote: If there was enough money in it to justify the time spent (which is important when you're a professional!), he'd a whole album like that tomorrow. But because there isn't, he won't.
Chris

If he came out with an Album Like that... I'm sure every member of Remix64 would buy it, and possibly other people from other Scene related Websites.

But you are right, he probably wouldn't make enough money to make it worth the time and effort.

Chris Abbott wrote:Propellerheads commissioned that remix for their own exclusive use, simple as that. Commercial transaction.

If there was enough money in it to justify the time spent (which is important when you're a professional!), he'd a whole album like that tomorrow. But because there isn't, he won't.

Chris

OK... so Hubbard is in it for the money and business then? ... and I am in this for nostalgica and fellowship with likeminded people ... could that be why C64audio.com is having problems? ... that us, sceners who just want the friendship and a place to give our free remixes for others to hear and join in glorious nostalgica are just simply not the right commercial target at all? ... just wondering...

afterall I'm a musician... I came here to share my remixes with you guys for free and talk nostalgica as well as about musical equipment and composing in general, and not with any thoughts of purchase anything, and I don't understand why I have to feel guilty about that...

Analog-X wrote:

Chris Abbott wrote:Propellerheads commissioned that remix for their own exclusive use, simple as that. Commercial transaction. Chris

Thats pretty cool, nice to have a remix by the legendery composer.

Chris Abbott wrote: If there was enough money in it to justify the time spent (which is important when you're a professional!), he'd a whole album like that tomorrow. But because there isn't, he won't.
Chris

If he came out with an Album Like that... I'm sure every member of Remix64 would buy it, and possibly other people from other Scene related Websites.

But you are right, he probably wouldn't make enough money to make it worth the time and effort.

Exactly what I was thinking ANX! ... and on the other hand, not everything need to involve money to make it worth the time and effort i believe... if that was the case, I don't believe RKO would even exist... it involves A LOT of work by hundreds of musicians busting their ass off for free, to please everyone in here for no profit at all.... afterall that is what I THOUGHT was the whole idear of this scene in the first place... and the thing that I love aboput the scene.

but again, as LMan said so right: It's their work, their decision, their care... they may doo what they want, but if they decide to "turn the key" on the scene, and all their marvelous work goes to the grave with them... don't blame me!