The Eminent Unique 310 sound...

o2 · Post by o2 » 01/05/2007 - 10:50

Been looking into my Nord Modular and found a patch that might be what you are looking for regarding the 3 Stage Chorus modulation.
If it is that, i can post a picture of the patch.

First without the "3 stage Chorus mod": http://o2.ziphoid.com/mp3/Sol/Solinaclean.mp3

And then with (what i think is a emulated 3 stage Chorus mod):
http://o2.ziphoid.com/mp3/Sol/Solinawith.mp3

Cheers
o2

Condor · Post by **Condor** » 01/05/2007 - 12:24

Analog-X wrote:The Strings and Plucks are right here:

http://www.perkristian.net/Eminent_310_ ... dfonts.htm

I've never tried using SoundFonts... how do they work? Will they work in Fruity Loops?

Yes, FL do the soundfont.
'C:\Program Files\Image-Line\FL Studio 7\Data\Patches\Soundfonts' and add .sf2 extensions in there. In FL studio just use 'Browser' to see soundfont.
In fact, you can put it in any folder and it will work, but only if the files extension is .sf2

Also for soundfonts you will need SFpack http://www.personalcopy.com/sfpack.htm
and/or SFark http://www.melodymachine.com/sfark.htm

----

BTW, Thanks razmo

Analog-X64 · Post by **Analog-X64** » 01/05/2007 - 13:26

Condor wrote: Also for soundfonts you will need SFpack http://www.personalcopy.com/sfpack.htm
and/or SFark http://www.melodymachine.com/sfark.htm

Why do I need these tools?

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 01/05/2007 - 19:38

O2...

I don't think this sound very much like the real eminent modulation... it's very thin?... I'm unsure if the raw waveform is different or something in this example...

The prpblem is very complicated as I see it looking at the diagrams of the solina... it involves an LFO at a defined rate, being modulated in amplitude by a tremolo LFO, that mofulates the first "copy" of the original waveform... then this is phase shiftet on the Pitch LFO for the second image of the chorus, and then the third image has the tremolophase shiftet... or something like that... this is where the scematics are very unclear.... it lookes like everything is routed to everything resulting in a VERY complex modulation pattern of some sort... I cannot decipher this diagram very well, but it's the absolute SECRET to the sound of the modulation unit.... if this one was cracked, with the G2 you would be able to recreate it surely (the G2 is still on my most wanted list!)

it's not just a matter of taking the dry sound three times and modulate these copies pitch.... it's much more complicated...

Actually the dry sound is not even present in the modulated sound... it is three images of the original modulated differently for each image using tremolo, vibrato and phase shifting.... WEIRD!

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 01/05/2007 - 19:46

Hey!... sorry!. .. I overlooked that last sample... it definitely sound more liek the phasing mechanism!!!.... very good O2!

... But still It is a bit fast in modulation, but that must be only a matter of changing the LFO rates..... I'd REALLY liek to see the patch of this modulation unit!

The next thing is, that the EMinent has a VERY "honky" character to it's sound.... wich is very important... this is not present in your demo.... I wonder if this is related to the filters or the sheer nature of the Eminent curcuits.... nonetheless, the modulation might just be the correct... just the input signal might have to be more "analogue" in nature to sound more authentic... I'm eager to make some more research into this...

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 01/05/2007 - 19:53

Hey O2, how does the sound of that modulated version sound, if you saturate the oscillators before the modulation unit, and low pass filter it a bit?... I can see in the curcuit diagrams that there are some low pass filtering going on before the signal reaches the modulation unit... this is trivial I know, but I'm curious if you've got the modulation just right, or it's the input sound that cuase the sound to be too "bright and thin" compared to the real thing... the real thing sounds MUCH fuller!

Yeah, I know I'm knit picking here, but I'm really keen on this particular sound, and VERY perfectionistic

Condor · Post by **Condor** » 01/05/2007 - 20:58

Analog-X wrote:
Condor wrote: Also for soundfonts you will need SFpack http://www.personalcopy.com/sfpack.htm
and/or SFark http://www.melodymachine.com/sfark.htm
Why do I need these tools?

.sfpack & .sfark are soundfont compression formats, something like .zip & .rar - but sspecialized for soundfotns. They provide better compression than algorithms for .rar or .zip
That was mentioned just in case if you download soundfonts and they don't work in FL.

o2 · Post by o2 » 01/05/2007 - 21:48

This is a screen shot of the modulation thingy only. As you can see there is a lowpass filter before the "modulation unit".
I would love to hear a "raw" eminent without the modulation to be able to recreate the sound before any modulation is done.

http://o2.ziphoid.com/mp3/Sol/modulation.JPG

//o2

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 01/05/2007 - 21:51

O2: ... this raw sound is actually present in one of the links I gave earlier

... it has a chord, first without modulation, and then the modulation is switched in later....

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 01/05/2007 - 21:59

Most of the patch you pic'ed O2, seems to be right as far as I understand the curcuit schematics of the Solina... But something is missing, in particulaer the tremolo LFO's that seem to be modulating the virbrato LFO's... also, the schematics clearly state, that the second and third image of the raw sound has vibrato and tremolo LFO's phase reversed for even greater variation... and it is in particlar THOSE connection that I do not understand... and filters are involved also, but I believe that is because the oscillators in the Solina has real fast oscillators for the LFOs and has to be filtered, to reach a reasonably slow rate... the way in wich the signal of the tremolo and vibrato is affecting each of the images is VERY hard to decipher for me, but it's cler, that the patch you showed does not have all the needed modulations, if we are to be perfectionistic

... Unfortunately not many people can possibly understand that curcuit here... maybe Thorsten Klose (MIDIBOX SID) can decipher this... He's a good friend of mine, whom I helped develop some code for the MIDIBOX SID, so I think I'll try and ask him... if he's not actually following this thread as he is here too

o2 · Post by o2 » 02/05/2007 - 14:20

Ive searching some more about this. And i found that the one who did this patch on NM also has done a version on NM2. So if you download the free NM2 software (Demo) from Clavia wich works on a PC. The Patch Grant Ransom made can be found here for NM G2 wich works in the Demo version of the software aswell.
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-6846.html

o2

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 02/05/2007 - 14:48

Thank you O2

... I'll take a look at that patch tomorrow, as I'm bussy with the Z1 today

...

I'll be back with criticism, if it does not seem to cut it!

... unfrtunately I would have been happy if I could hear it in action... but I guess that will have to wait until I got one of those G2s

Marcel Donné · Post by **Marcel Donné** » 24/05/2007 - 5:37

http://www.eminent310.nl/

Site's also in English with a few anecdotes. Enjoy!

Razmo · Post by **Razmo** » 24/05/2007 - 10:26

Marcel:

Thanks for the link

... really interresting page, and the links too actually (within that page).... though I found nothing about the modulation unit

... anyway, it's just like the SID... too complicated to replicate... you got to have the real thing if you are perfectionistic... like me

One thing I did find interresting though was the text about hooking the electroharmonix Smallstone phaser to the left side, and a copied and delayed version on the right side... I wonder if Jarre did the same thing?

Also; that the smallstone connected to the Eminent via a stereo to mono cable was interresting... As far as I've read, it's a no-no to mix several outputs to one input, and one should use a mixer for that... from one out to several in's are ok though... wonder if the article remembered to explain the usage of a mixer? anyways, I'm certain that the combined sound that enter the Smallstone will be even more fat this way.

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion, that the modulation need not really be exact... the most important is, that the Smallstone is fed with a really heavily modulated signal of sorts, which is rich in harmonics to sound lush... of course it's not the Jarre signature, but again, why would one try and use his trademark signature anyway... It would be fun to make your own instead, using the Smallstone nonetheless.. I'd say that 50% of the magic of the Eminent sound on Jarre's music comes from the Smallstone anyway (not to mention the Electric Mistress Flanger)... so now it's just up to me to come up with my own trademark 50%

One of the things that has pissed me off using two smallstones for stereo is, that they are ofcourse not synchronised, meaning that they will give a very wobbly stereo perspective meaning that it'll never get to that deep and lush "rumble" at the dark passages that just sound so cool because one of the phasers is always more or less bright in one speaker or the other (because of the non-synchronised stereo setup)... one of the cool things about the Smallstone sound is, that it have this deep, creamy and analog swoosh to it, when operating slowly on the source (if the source is enough fat and harmonically rich)... the trick with the delayed right signal to a mixer might be just what I'm looking for...

Analog-X64 · Post by **Analog-X64** » 25/05/2007 - 3:40

Check out this clip.. make sure to watch the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVr72UcCvkk