Is this experience using 'real' hardware or not?

[Commie_User]

I certainly did and thank you. I enjoy these chewy debates as much as getting my hands on all the old gear.


If you play that music in mono you'll hear some pretty phasing. For me, that's where the authenticity lies rather than whether you use a real 64 or BBC.


I notice many C64 'remixers' never even touch the SID. Or if they do they also add other synths and mix to stereo anyway. I wonder why they suddenly call for only the genuine article when they've defeated their own object.

I'd love to hear some of your chip music Razmo.




This next jingle was dashed off using a nice combination of 'bloopy' 8-bit chipsound with a smoother synth.

Emulation will completely take over one day anyway. As kit gets scarce whilst retro appreciates, ever more versatile sample packs and VSTi will fill the vacuum. I suggest everybody build up their own 'retro walls' now because you'll have no economy choice in 20 years' time!

[Commie_User]

Also... sometimes I've had the urge to code on the AMIGA again... even though I've not done it yet, IF I was to do it, I'd certainly get a real AMIGA... using an emulator to me just simply seem plain "plastic" to me... "not right"... maybe because I've been coding it so much in the past... it's the feel from back then that I would want, but I'd not get that from sitting in front af a PC and an LCD monitor... even though it would certainly be much more flexible and better looking.

Hardware is best with the Amiga but the Atari ST emulates splendidly: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8455

But I totally agree with you on the 'feel'. Just as the classic album excites a little more when it's an original '60s reel-to-reel playing - even when you normally prefer the higher fidelity stereo CD.

[Razmo]

Yes... emulation has to take over as new chips are not produced anymore, but still I've got enough SID chips in store here to replace my real deal in my lifetime ...

For me, the sound of the SID is special... nostalgic, and I can certainly hear the difference of an emulation and the real deal... maybe not so much the raw digital part of the SID, as the emulation goes pretty close to the original in its reconstruction of the sound... afterall the SID IS partialy digital.

It's the analog filter part that is the magic for me with SID, both the old and new revisions, and this sound just is not emulateable precicely enough to satisfy me, and even if it did, it would not give me the same thrill as using the real deal.

Anyway, even though the digital part is close to perfect in emulation, it does not, and cannot run at the "sampling frequency" that the SID uses internaly... SID is a custom sound chip, and it runs at a nominal 1Mhz rate (little slower in real C64), and can even run at 3MHz... this alone makes a difference, especialy with the aliasing of high pitches.

And about MY CHIPMUSIC... I've got none, and probably never will make any... it's too constrained for my liking these days... I did make something waaaaaay back when i had my C64, but it was never spread back then and is irrevocably lost ... but I recall the name of the piece was "Crap"... for some obscure reason

[Commie_User]

I definitely hear what you're saying. I'll never part with my machines either. SIDs were different and there are still plenty of things you can never do with an emulator, such as plug in the Sound Expander or the MSSIAH. Even keyboard overlay software is second-rate as the emulators suffer latency. Real machines can also sound fuller and more genuinely analogue.

In the end I can take from a hotch-potch of sources and include what charges me - often a mixture of 'real' and emulated chipsound. One emulator which really grabbed me was Sidplay because channels can be solo'd or spread across the stereo. You can learn how certain sounds were layered right by delving in.

[Razmo]

SIDPlay had especialy that feature yes... solo'ing individual tracks which makes it good for sampling single tracks or sounds.. I used this also in the past, but today I use ACID 64 Player which has the same function, even with hardware that use the real SID chip which is what I did to make those C64 sample banks I've been posting in here... SIDPlay could also do this with the real deal, but ACID 64 player is a much more modern application for this, so I've turned to that app... don't remember if it does emulation as well, or is only for real deal hardware.

[Commie_User]

No denying I'd love to 'go real' from time to time.

Just look at these PET demos: http://awesome.commodore.me/pet/pet-demos/