Commodore Remix

Ok so yesterday was my lengthy post of what got me where I am now.

So again before I say anything... I'm like a total noob, when it comes to making music, I dont master any of my recordings, other than play with the volume level, treble and bass. I know I should be playing with Frequencies and make sure the instruments sit in their own space, but I haven't progressed to that stage.

So how I start making music, is in my head while sleeping, showering and any other mundane activity in life, I'll have a hopefully catchy lead line and will try and figure out how to play on my M-Audio midi controller, with some generic sounds, once I have it figure out, I'll go through some sound banks to have a sound that matches the melody that I have, I than follow this with a simple kick drum just for timing purposes, followed by a bassline, and start to flesh things out from there, once I have the patterns down, its very easy to play with the arrangement and flow of the track.

Usually by this point, I'm already not happy with what I have. What started as wanting to make something catchy, snappy and happy, is some dark brooding type of tune and is not as snappy as I want it.

So thats pretty much it for me.

I think I may have used that one before. Seems familiar.

Though purists often scoff, it's lovely to pack your system to the rafters with effective VSTi if you can. I doubt it even matters much if people go no deeper than the presets any more. There are so many different programs and settings about that it's more a question of picking and mixing the presets to get what you need most of the time.

Must admit, unless an especially good synth commands my attention, rifling through the synth pile and tweaking the presets almost always lands me just the sounds I've been thinking of.

Analog-X64 wrote:Usually by this point, I'm already not happy with what I have. What started as wanting to make something catchy, snappy and happy, is some dark brooding type of tune and is not as snappy as I want it.

Similar happens to me as well, though my tracks don't go dark and broody as such. I seem to be an easy listening man and find it a little difficult to be edgy. However, it's nice my mother and grandmother are pleased with the results though. And I think I can say I've made a pile of tunes in a variety of styles where I could interpret them.

Analog-X64 wrote:So again before I say anything... I'm like a total noob, when it comes to making music, I dont master any of my recordings, other than play with the volume level, treble and bass. I know I should be playing with Frequencies and make sure the instruments sit in their own space, but I haven't progressed to that stage.

Usually by this point, I'm already not happy with what I have. What started as wanting to make something catchy, snappy and happy, is some dark brooding type of tune and is not as snappy as I want it.

Analog - I don't really have a Mix/Master process in my music creating timeline either. I've listened to some stuff, (on here as well) that sounds like it's had a snowfall on top of it.
it's so tightly compressed, filtered and limited that it sounds unreal. The music itself has become sterile and without soul. No after-tones, harmonics or crossover in the sounds. For me, you have to let
the music 'sing'! I position the instrument sounds where I want them in the spectrum, (127 left to 127 right), set their overall level and then stop messing. The dynamics like velocity
and volume crescendo are in the performance data on the track.

Brilliant compositions can get utterly destroyed at the 'sound engineering' stage of the production. The composition is what lives on through history and that's what I pay 95% of my attention to.

...and secondly, don't trash your stuff, just save it for another day. Don't go into a session expecting something finished to come out of it or I promise you, you will be disappointed every time. A lot of
ideas for riffs and accompanying parts come to me when I listen to just a basic beat, bass and melody. Could be a harmony to the melody or another sub-melody, dancing around the first one. Then,
once that bit is in, it triggers other ideas. it's a creation process which I go into with some ideas but I certainly DO NOT have all the parts when I sit down at the beginning.

TANGENT!! - Came across this yesterday - for any of my fellow 'Reason' musicians, this 3-part video tutorial is great for anyone who wants some ideas about 8bit 'Siddy' type sounds.

http://www.re-wiki.com/refill/emulation/chip-sounds/

There are some good sounding presets in the video, (not too sure about the drums though LOL) The Video is at the BOTTOM of the page

poke16384 wrote: TANGENT!! - Came across this yesterday - for any of my fellow 'Reason' musicians, this 3-part video tutorial is great for anyone who wants some ideas about 8bit 'Siddy' type sounds.

http://www.re-wiki.com/refill/emulation/chip-sounds/

There are some good sounding presets in the video, (not too sure about the drums though LOL) The Video is at the BOTTOM of the page

A number of years ago this Remix64 site had a compo where you should do a remix/cover of some kind of Jarre's Oxygene8 track and I made this with my own made sid sounds in reason only using the Subtractor since Thor wasn't available back then
Notice that I have made the oxygene track as it "should" sound with 3 channels on a real c64 therefor the gaps and jumps between the sounds
Now I have added a kick and a hihat for some more "punch"
http://trace.ziphoid.com/oxy8_sidmix.mp3

I think that how you go about making your music is different from person to person.

Personaly I work differently when remixing than when I compose my own stuff, mainly because a remix has to be "told" in a certain way, especially with C64 remixes where you want to catch the game spirit, but also the sound spirit of the original... I always try to hit both of these goals when I remix a C64 piece.

When I compose myself it's EXTREMELY improvised... I NEVER have anything in my head that I want to do, cause my main inspiration is SOUND in general... I simple fiddle around on the kaybord for fun, changing a few patches until I simply happen to play something that I find to be nice sounding... then I record this, place it in a loop, not more than a few bars.

Next thing, I continue to just have fun playing to the short sequence I just did... the idears come as they evolve by themselves... in the end I have a small loop going, usualy with bass, sequence and percussion... this is then repeated in the timeline for as long as I want the score to be... then I start to record melodylines, and make changes to the arrangement over time... putting in FX and breaks where I feel they should be.

So with my own compositions, I have nothing prepared before I start, and end up with whatever comes out of it, everything being decided in the creative process.

I sometimes do a bit of EQ in the creative process, at other times I do not... only if I can hear instantly that a low-cut is needed on an instrument do I use EQ at the creative stage, otherwise I usualy wait with this until the mixing stage.

For me, recording FAST and doing things FAST without spending too much time finetuning is VERY important... my experince has taught me, that what comes first to my mind is usualy the best sounding... if I spend too much time trying to analyse and fiddle around, I end up with something that is too complex, and the following day it just sound awful... it's like if you nerd around too much with it, you cannot hear the piece correctly wgain when you've had it out of your head for a while... it's like you cannot know the melodies in advance... you listen and you THINK what the next note will be, but then it does not... you have to sit and listen to the tune again for a period of time until you "know the melody" again before it start to sound ok again... but the next time you've had it out of your head, it's just wrong again. I believe this is what makes the difference in music wether it's an "instant ear catcher" or not... people don't like to be confused when listening.

With C64 Remixes it's all a bit different though... here I have mainly two ways I usualy go... one way is that I have an idear with the style, instrumentation and SFX etc... my remix of "Entombed" is one such piece. I like to give a Remix MOOD, and in other cases a specific genre ("Action Biker"/"Terra Cresta" comes to mind).

Another way is to simply just update the original to more pro instruments, but maintaining some of the sound... the instrumentation should have the same sonic quality as the original... "Demons First" is one such piece.

At other times I simply start out making some of my own compositions, and then suddenly find out while fiddling around, that a C64 piece fit perfectly for what I was doing, and these tend to end out pretty random... my first remix on the boards ever "Tiikerihai" is such a type.

So I guess you can all see, that for me, there is really no specific remixing rules I go by... it all depend upon what I want and what happens underways.

When it comes to C64 sound vs. pro instrument sounds in a remix, it depends on how much the oridinal sound is part of the "atmosphere" of the original... some SIDs will utterly fail in a remix, if you do not get VERY close to the original sound, if you cannot come up with something very clever in the arrangement... Try "Commando" for example... all those ringmoded and hardsync'ed sounds... Sanxion also... if you do not have some of that raw sound, it will in my opinion FAIL BIGTIME since these sounds drive the whole piece... the challenge lies in making these sounds on pro gear, and making them have the same feel, though hopefuly sounding even better!

But... sometimes it's just not possible or very hard to decipher how those sounds vere done, and simply sampling the original is the better approach... in my "R1D1" remix it did this with some of the ringmod'ed sounds, but effected them a bit... still retaining the original feel and sound.

Even though I actually have both a HardSID 4U studio edition, and a MIDI Box Sammich SID with the real deal SID chip, I never used it in a remix yet... a bit funny really... but maybe some day I will

Honestly... I've not remixed my favourite SID yet... and maybe I never will... mainly because the original sound so good to me, I don't know how to make it retain it's feel... it has all the challenges from above... synced and ringmod'ed sounds, very complex patterns of melodies. Whenever I try to start a remix of it, the original just still have something about it that I have yet not found out how to retain.... it's Hubbards "One Man & His Droid".

but who knows... maybe one day...

Lately, a few people have asked and talked about achieving 'Atmosphere', 'Ambiance' or more simply 'Mood' in the music that we produce.

I've been revisiting a lot of music just recently. Some of it, stuff I haven't heard for decades. Anyways... If you want to hear, what I think is,
one of the very best examples of how to change the 'Mood', multiple times in a single piece of music then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYl6iI4l ... re=related

The 1st Movement (allegro) is 21 minutes long - Leonard Bernstein is conducting The Wiener Philharmoniker with Krystian Zimerman at the piano.

I urge you to stick with it through the 21 minutes because it's mood changes so much and so many times. I used to do my homework to this piece of music and I had forgotten it.
Then I stumbled across it on YT. If you were 'word-tagging' this piece, there are so many that apply: Uplifting, Dramatic, Sinister, Powerful, Eclectic, Sad, Majestic, Joyous,
Eccentric, and dozens more.

It only took me a couple of runs through to remember all of my favourite bits of it. I love the drama in Beethoven's music. A comedian, (can't remember which one), once said,
"It all goes along nicely then he runs out into the kitchen and smashes the dishes!", meaning there are too many crescendos in his music. I laughed at the line but totally disagree!
There is so much emotion in the music, it can honestly bring tears from my eyes and create a lump in my throat. I love it!

In this piece of music is SO MUCH of what we try to achieve in our own music, structure, harmony, descant, arpeggios, pedal-point, etc. The movement in the music is astonishing.
If you are someone trying to understand mood and atmosphere, the video of the orchestra will help you see what instruments are doing what, which helps you pick them out better with your ears.
Here's an exercise/challenge for anyone who wants to have a go at 'mood-spotting'.... How many moods can you feel/recognise between 10:17 and 13:15 and more importantly,
can you write a word or phrase for each, (I can sense about 6/7 changes of mood in just 3 minutes).

I don't really know, never thought too much about 'how', I just kick the stone downhill and keep it rollin' until it hits the target Most of the time I don't know what I'll do the next minute.

At the beginning there are some brief ideas and base riffs to be forged into audio/music, then there is some (re)search to choose the right equipment and settings, making decisions with estimating future impact (taking possible problems into consideration and thinking about their threatment even before recording the first note) and try to live with them. Arrangement and re-arrangement and re-re-rearrengement. If a song works in a barebone environment (drums+bassline, main melody - think of SID) without bells & whistles it usually works in a more complex mix, too. Then I try not to be lost too much in details and try to find a balanced soundscape that adds some excitement to the actual track without fading the content. Keeping deadlines.

Finalising is mostly about detecting and fixing all possible problems and creating a balance between ideas and equipment the most straightforward way without thinking too much about the process or theory

It's kindof strange.
When I make my own original music, I mostly begin with an idea about what kind of song I will make. Then, I work on the arrengements and while doing it, some kind of melody and strategy always pops up in my head by itself and allows itself to be inserted in the song.

I almost always work with a main melody and a counter melody. This happens by itself which surprises even myself. I seldom discover this until I'm done. I believe this is a heritage from all the C64 music I listened to in my childhood. Especially Hubbard was great at this.

This method has turned out to make the best songs for me. A few times I've begun at the other end: Having a melody and dressing it with an arrengement. Apart from one exception, this has not been the best method for me. The end product feels more forced and not as free and inspired that way.

When I'm remixing, it's unavoidable to not use the second method. However this has worked quite well anyway since I allow myself to improvise some anyway.

Technically, I only use VSTi as my instruments, however I like to tweak the presets to fit my taste. It's rare I use a preset right out of the box so I begin by searching for a sound that conveyes what I need and then I adjust it. I do 100% of the music, mixing and everything inside the computer even though I have real keyboards. This suits me fine since I often am travelling and like to make music while doing it. Also, it's a method that fits me well since my hands can't play the music I have inside my head anyway. I CAN play piano, but I'm no Mozart.

Using Renoise as my main studio. Tried Rebirth and some different classic sequencers but they weren't the tools for me. Trackers is the shit

Composing mostly using earphones but switching to speakers when it's time to master. I'm fortunate that I have found a pair of earphones that gives a pretty accurate image of what it would sound like in other people's equipment so the mastering process is mostly tweaking what I already have. I did go through lots of earphones before finding a pair I liked. The fun thing is that they were the cheapest ones too

The most fun project was Primeiro which is an original composition but I wanted it to sound like it was from Jarre's Oxygene 8-13 album, so I tracked down what synths he had used, found the similar VSTis and worked with them in (what must have been) the same way as he had done. I learnt lots from that experience.

I like to mimic other composers. Learning by doing, you could say.

Primeiro - Jarre style Sadless - Vangelis style Groovy - Ben Daglish style OmBB - Hans Zimmer style WIBB - Craig Armstrong style And some other ones:

NyCamp - Mostly improvisation actually Tetris Oxymix - Tetris meets Jarre Last Ninja II The Mansion - A pumped up remix And finally an Amiga Remix:
Hero Quest - Pophousedub remix

I'm still working with jeskola buzz (a freeware community supported trackerstyle synthesizer with quite some power in it) and some soundforge support if it comes to recording. i have no other hardware besides my 2 guitars and the multi-effect for them.

as for creating music, since i mostly create close-to-the-original remakes / mixes. usually i start off with some basic setup arrangement without much glimmer and then once its done i go for the adding and finetuning of the additional supporting sound fx like the common echos, verbs, stereo fx and those. when i create songs, i listen to them all the time for hours and hours and then after i found enough stuff to work on, ill switch to the music file again and do the fixes. rinse and repeat until its finished.

Totta wrote:It's kindof strange.

Yes it is, You have all these wonderful tunes I haven't heard of them before.

Nice tunes there, Totta!

@Zzr: I tried Buzz about 10 years ago, but it would crash on me every half hour, so I abandoned it. But it's possibilities are thrilling indeed.

My studio is Reason-only, too.

@LMan
True it has its flaws, but the current "old" version is pretty stable now for a long time, and there is a "new" buzz out now, pretty evolved in alot of parts. On my part, the old buzz 1.2 just loved to crash on certain machines sometimes, the rest is pretty stable. For a freeware program its just incredible, thats pretty much why i use it for all this years now.

Yeah since math and music are closely related anyways, the programmers approach on making music is intriguing.

THC Flatline loved to work with buzz for exactly that reason; he also coded his own generators.

I guess I'm one of those guys who mostly stick to the old-style techniques to make music. Right, let's see...

Software Used:

1) Cubase SX or Nuendo to record live, cut 'n paste and mix
2) Pro 53
3) B4
4) Fruity Loops (rarely and only to create drum loops)

Equipment

1) A stereo mic for acoustic instruments (which I've unfortunately lost and can't find the same brand...)
2) A really old GEM Guitar Amp (it's an Italian amp from the 60s made for hammond organ actually)
3) A budget mixer!
4) Some guitar effect pedals (rarely), such as a Dunlop CryBaby, a delay and a reverb pedal

Instruments

1) A Gibson Les Paul Custom for the electric guitar parts and some bass parts as well (!)
2) A budget electric guitar fitted with guitar synth (haven't used it on any C64 remix yet)
2) A Yamaha bass (which I bought for 100 euros!)
3) A Yamaha drumkit (rarely and only to make drum loops 'cause I'm not a drummer!)
4) A knackered classical guitar (which sounded quite well on my Bossa 'n Goblins remix, surprisingly!)
5) An acoustic guitar which I borrow from a friend (haven't used it on any C64 remix yet)
6) A couple of harmonicas
7) Many other weird instruments I come across every now and then (Balalaika, Mandolin, Recorder, Kora, Bagpipes, Xylophone, Analog synths etc)

Samples

Any royalty-free samples available
Sometimes I make drum loops using real drums from the "Drum Crazy" vinyl series (wicked stuff!)

The length of the process depends on many parameters. However, I always STOP when I'm blocked and continue the next day, otherwise I end up stuck on a bit for hours.
Sometimes I ask my girlfriend or some friends to comment on the music before I add the finishing touches.

I record mostly live instruments (well, apart from the drums parts) and I try to avoid cut'n'pasting as much as possible. The solos are always improvised (one of the reasons I don't record many of them! The other reason is that I don't find it necessary to add a guitar solo in every track. In fact, I hate guitar solos! But guitar is my instrument and I have to accept it!).

I never use headphones to listen to the mix. Headphones INVARIABLY make everything sound better than it actually does. I use a couple of monitor speakers which I have installed so as to be on the same level and in the same distance from my ears.

I never drink alcohol when I record. It makes everything slower and fuzzier! I never smoke spliffs too, 'cause they make everything sound better and then you wake up next morning only to realise that you've recorded a bunch of stoned crap the night before!

That's about it really.