Commodore Remix

> I'm sure every member of Remix64 would buy it,

No, they wouldn't. That's the whole problem. They'd find excuse after excuse not to.

Trust me on that. For Rob, it's about just getting enough back to justify the time spent, and getting enough listenership. The scene has cut off its nose to spite its face when it comes to the situation where even Rob Hubbard can't have a hit CD with C64 music because everyone's too fat and lazy, gorged on C64 music till they've metaphorically puked.

Chris

Ok I guess it's time that we all take a deep breath and relax. Let's not create two camps but rather have a constructive discussion together.

Everytime we have the discussion about the commercial aspect of C64Audio.com, we're forgetting that the income generated is ridiculously small. Smaller even than the expenses.

£13 in the last three days, to be exact. For example.

Chris

That reminds me, got to go to the Post Office...

LMan wrote:Ok I guess it's time that we all take a deep breath and relax. Let's not create two camps but rather have a constructive discussion together.

Everytime we have the discussion about the commercial aspect of C64Audio.com, we're forgetting that the income generated is ridiculously small. Smaller even than the expenses.

Actually, I've been trying to keep it constructive the whole time... but I asume that it can be hard to understand the difference between personal opinion on the matter, personal wishes, and then at the same time trying to be realistic and analyse the problem...

Personally, I want both C64audio, Remix64, RKO and SlayRadio to thrive... there is NO doubt on that! ... but I'm also an analytic and a realist... and I try to spot the problems and tell them here, and sometimes they might be comprehended as personal opinion... which is NOT the case.

The main "theme" of my "ranting" here is the ultimate question: CAN C64audio survive, or is Chris fighting a "phantasm"? ... sometimes (to keep it C64 related) I think about Chris as "One man and his dream" ... (no harm intended Chris! )... just don't want to see you fight another 10 years for nothing Chris.

Razmo wrote:

LMan wrote:Ok I guess it's time that we all take a deep breath and relax. Let's not create two camps but rather have a constructive discussion together.

Everytime we have the discussion about the commercial aspect of C64Audio.com, we're forgetting that the income generated is ridiculously small. Smaller even than the expenses.

Actually, I've been trying to keep it constructive the whole time... but I asume thaty it can be hard to understand the difference between personal opinion on the matter, personal wishes, and then at the same time trying to be realistic and analyse the problem...

Personally, want both C64audio, Remix64, RKO and SlayRadio to thrive... there is NO doubt on that! ... but I'm also an analytic and a realist... and I try to spot the problems and tell them here, and sometimes they might be comprehended as personal opinion... which is NOT the case for me!

The main "theme" of my "ranting" here is the ultimate question: CAN C64audio survive, or is Chris fighting a "phantasm"? ... sometimes (to keep it C64 related) I think about Chris as "One man and his dream" ... (no harm intended Chris! )... just don't waant to see you fight another 10 years for nothing Chris.

The status quo is not an option. However, luckily for me and the scene, not everyone is as jaded as I am, so there still may be hope for something quite unexpected.

Chris

Chris Abbott wrote:

Razmo wrote:

LMan wrote:Ok I guess it's time that we all take a deep breath and relax. Let's not create two camps but rather have a constructive discussion together.

Everytime we have the discussion about the commercial aspect of C64Audio.com, we're forgetting that the income generated is ridiculously small. Smaller even than the expenses.

Actually, I've been trying to keep it constructive the whole time... but I asume thaty it can be hard to understand the difference between personal opinion on the matter, personal wishes, and then at the same time trying to be realistic and analyse the problem...

Personally, want both C64audio, Remix64, RKO and SlayRadio to thrive... there is NO doubt on that! ... but I'm also an analytic and a realist... and I try to spot the problems and tell them here, and sometimes they might be comprehended as personal opinion... which is NOT the case for me!

The main "theme" of my "ranting" here is the ultimate question: CAN C64audio survive, or is Chris fighting a "phantasm"? ... sometimes (to keep it C64 related) I think about Chris as "One man and his dream" ... (no harm intended Chris! )... just don't waant to see you fight another 10 years for nothing Chris.

The status quo is not an option. However, luckily for me and the scene, not everyone is as jaded as I am, so there still may be hope for something quite unexpected.

Chris

Well... to that statement I can say only one thing: I'll cross my fingers Chris!

Razmo wrote:Personally, I want both C64audio, Remix64, RKO and SlayRadio to thrive... there is NO doubt on that! ...

So while you're not prepared to shop in the little specialist store down the street to help it stay in business, you'd still hate to see it go ?

You know - not everyone believes that shopping somewhere - because you like the store atmosphere, the products (and appreciate the love that went into creating them), the service, and chatting to the friendly manager who'll actually thank you for your purchase - has anything to do with being charitable.

I think donating is quite important, not only in terms of money but a sort of pat on the back for the people involved.

Obviously nobodoy's making real money from this stuff so the donations can have a moral effect too I think.

If I may toot my own horn I donated

4 x to Lemon64
5 x to Slay Radio
4 x to RKO

I don't know if it's possible to donate to the R64 forum but I can't seem to find any PayPal links?

Jan Lund Thomsen wrote:

Razmo wrote:Personally, I want both C64audio, Remix64, RKO and SlayRadio to thrive... there is NO doubt on that! ...

So while you're not prepared to shop in the little specialist store down the street to help it stay in business, you'd still hate to see it go ?

You know - not everyone believes that shopping somewhere - because you like the store atmosphere, the products (and appreciate the love that went into creating them), the service, and chatting to the friendly manager who'll actually thank you for your purchase - has anything to do with being charitable.

You are misundertanding what I'm trying to say Jan, or I'm just bad at explaining this. I've never said I will not support...in fact if you read my previous posts, I've promised to visit and have a look next month at C64audio... what I'm bickering about is, that Chris is "hitting" at us who do not buy in a way that we should feel bad about ourselves that we do not... I actually feel like being mislead somehow here, that I have been "lured" into the scene just to get the "bill dropped on the table" later....

I'll repeat: I came here to participate with my FREE stuff, and to download FREE stuff... that was what I saw here at RKO and Remix64... additionally I noticed C64audio.com later, but has never been tempted to go there and buy anything since that was NOT my intention in the first place! and I WILL NOT feel bad about not having bought anything up until now that I know the severity of the problem... it's going so far as to Chris posting sarchastic replies in my other threads because I've bought some gear this month instead of buying from his shop! (quote: "I'm glad you have the money.")... I find this distasteful, especialy since I promised to visit the shop next month... we are still in september! ... Chris: if that was NOT your feeling behind that post, please correct me). I've had people write me privately about new gear they bought, just because they did not want to be accused of being a leech that have money to buy gear, but not buy at C64audio.. is this really how it should be?

You do not make anyone care by making them feel like lousy leechers... sorry, but that is how I see it.

I care... and I will buy if there is something I like... but I will NOT do it if I have to feel pressured by making me feel like a jerk. That is the self same reason I believe XO left the building (even though I've tried to make him stay).

Lagerfeldt wrote:I think donating is quite important, not only in terms of money but a sort of pat on the back for the people involved.

Obviously nobodoy's making real money from this stuff so the donations can have a moral effect too I think.

If I may toot my own horn I donated

4 x to Lemon64
5 x to Slay Radio
4 x to RKO

I don't know if it's possible to donate to the R64 forum but I can't seem to find any PayPal links?

I believe too, that it's important to donate... don't get me wrong... but some people have to priorize their buying every month (at least I have to)... my list of what I want in a month is definitely longer than what my income allows, and frankly, C64audio shopping is not yet at the top of my list. I have a studio that I'm trying to complete here with whatever small fundings I can amass each month and selling other gear, and would lower my priority of many other needed purchases to this, as music is my life... but this goes not only for shopping at C64audio... it goes for clothing, food and other important everyday stuff stuff as well! ...

Now if you had this one gear-thingy that you would want to purchase for your studio, and you had to postpone donating because of it... would you do that then?

Now I'm on welfare here, and I can tell you it's not a joy! ... I just have to priorize... that's it. Besides, I'm not just leeching here... I'm participating... I'm remixing for free to support the scene in other ways than to buy at the moment, and I surely hope that this is appreciated.

I'll have to point out one thing that is not to be misunterstood...

Nobody was trying to provoke guilt in anyone. All we were trying to do was to get some attention directed at a part of the scene that's slowly dying, but which forms an important groundwork for it all. And with attention, we meant that people go and actually visit C64Audio.com in the first place, maybe check out on the loads of free stuff available there, and to go and spread the word. Noone ever told anyone to go and mindlessly shop stuff he might not even like, or did we?

Frankly I don't see how we manage to keep getting things in the wrong throat (two-way, all of us).

Also, I received PMs speaking of the "inner circle" thing as if we actually were some kind of secret society, pulling strings here and there, manipulating people into buying stuff. This allegiation pisses me off. That's what I meant when I said employing this misleading term will enforce misunterstanding and create an unwanted barrier between those concerned and the rest. Well time to get things straight:

Noone of the scene webmasters are making any demands of anyone in the scene, neither past nor present (often it's the other way round though). The assumption that we deliberately try to incite guilt within the commnuity - yes it actually hurts.

Razmo: please note that this is not directed at you. I guess at least you will understand what I mean, since you are facing the same problem - if you post a stream of fresh ideas how to improve the service, it gets misunderstood as demands. So I hope you see the parallels.

I entrust everyone to recollect and form a bridge between the "two lairs" based on the understanding of the other side.

Also I think it's time this thread was closed. There are some threads that seem to have bad karma, as they tend to cause more misunderstanding than communication. If anyone objects, please let me know.

If anyone based on this thread has bought CDs they don't actually like, I will refund their money AND let them keep the product. And I won't tell anyone either (I can't believe that someone might think I might do that, but based on this evidence people are willing to believe all sorts of outrageous things about people like LMan who are some of the most honorable and honest I've ever met: shame on you!!).

There isn't one quote in this thread that says I want people to buy things they don't like. The whole thread (for the final time) is about people who won't even give C64Audio.com a chance and judge the music fairly.

Chris