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Posted: 23/12/2003 - 21:29
by Larsec
Mayhem wrote:Curious. I wonder if I was one of the first people to get a copy as mine turned up on Saturday...
Well, the rest of us here are from other parts of Europe. I'm sure you got yours faster since you are situated in the UK...

I go mine as well today, huhej! :)

And I too would like to thank all the people involved with the CD... Great job! :D

Posted: 23/12/2003 - 22:14
by Atroxis
I guess shipping out of UK might take a few days longer, so that's why you got your CDs already on saturday and we did not... :)

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 11:54
by Rafael Dyll
Well, postman came, grinned, plonked envelopes into everybody's post boxes and left. Guess what he didn't bring.

Shame, I planned to give it to someone this Christmas Eve. It's funny how crap "german efficiency" can be when you need it. :cry:

Have a great X-Mas everyone, nonetheless. :)

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 12:50
by Jan Morgenstern
Rafael Dyll:
> Well, postman came, grinned, plonked envelopes into everybody's post boxes and left. Guess what he didn't bring.

Same here. Alas, that these evil days must be mine.

Nonetheless, nice christmas to y'all.

jan, quietly sobbing

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 13:56
by hoomish
Got mine this morning :wink:

My thanks to Neil, the musicians and everyone else who was involved in bringing this fantastic CD to the public :)

Haven't had much of a listen yet, but everything seems great so far...

Btw, sticking a post-it on each cd was a very nice touch Neil... :wink:

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 16:38
by weblaus
Rafael Dyll wrote:Well, postman came, grinned, plonked envelopes into everybody's post boxes and left. Guess what he didn't bring.

Shame, I planned to give it to someone this Christmas Eve. It's funny how crap "german efficiency" can be when you need it. :cry:
That leaves me amazed that my c64audio.com parcel arrived today... especially given that I also only now received an order from amazon.co.uk today that was shipped 8 (!) days before Chris's CDs.

Quick thoughts on Remix64 Vol. 2

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 17:01
by weblaus
Umm... I'm not entirely sure this fits that well in this thread, but I didn't want to open up a new one.

Anyway, as mentioned above, I got my copy of the CD along with the new PPOT-album just today, but only had time to quickly scan through the tracks.. so I don't have a much more detailed opinion yet on the music apart from what I knew already from the MP3-snippets (i.e. it's more than likely not my cup of tea for various reasons, but undeniable well done nevertheless).

What I can comment on though are the cover and the booklet: correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the stated intent to have the CD appeal to people beyond the C64-remix-scene? Wouldn't it have been much more useful in that case to use a cover illustration that doesn't more or less scream "gaming-nerds only"? Most people I know aren't into C64-music anyway, but they certainly wouldn't be more interested after seeing pixelated old-style graphics. I actually thought the simple-but-elegant style of the first cover design was much better.. I'm aware that this likely had to be dropped due to unforeseen circumstances, but I find the replacement a curious choice.

On to the booklet: this certainly looks pretty stylish and I like the little icons for each song, but I miss any kind of information next to the raw data of name/composer etc. I suppose there's some kind of idea behind the text snippets attached to each song, but I don't get it. To me, this basically boils down to more or leass meaningless bits of story/fantasy/whatever that don't really tell me anything about the why's and how's of each song - something I'd be interested in a lot more given how uncommon most of the chosen titles are. Or more informations about the involved arrangers/composers, something actually done pretty well on the remix64-preview-site.

I just have to compare all this to the PPOT-CD, since I believe they've handled these aspect pretty much right, as I guess there're well aware that they appeal to a core audience that appreciates exactly the style they've worked their cover/booklet in - the whole project comes across as very tongue-in-cheek, while Into Eternity has a very grave and serious feeling to it (that's somewhat shot down be the geeky cover style, see above).

I'm aware that this comes across as mostly negative and I hope nobody sees this as an attack (which it xcertainly isn't), but I just believe it's more usefull to be honest, even if it'll cerainly not be the most popular opinion.

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 21:09
by tas
Hoomish was the unlucky one... People in Denmark/holland seem to have got theirs before Hoomish did.

As for germany, well they seem to have the slowest post ;)

All i can say with the X-mas post, it's pretty much of a lottery who gets theirs.

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 22:42
by tas
Weblaus...

I find most of your coments a bit odd, but non-the-less i respect your view.

1) The change of booklet cover

As you say unforseen circumstances made the change.

2) The idea of getting it outside the Scene

It's simply not gonna happen... I've argued to myself that it's possible, but i'm just fooling myself to think otherwise. Circumstances changed, noticing this is a c64 product afterall i found if i made it not look like a c64 product then the result would be counter productive.

3) PPOT v Remix64

I'm not gonna coment, as the feel of ppot's is completely different to remix64. From what i have seen PPOT's booklet is humorous and at times so is the music where remix64 is very serious.

4) Geeky look

Strange how you like the icons, but not the cover as they are basically more often than not snipits of the front cover. How you like one set and find the other set geeky is a bit strange.

5) Stories.

They are scene setting stories, the stories help set the scene of the each individual track. The idea is that if you read the booklet while listening to each track then it helps paint a picture of what the track is about. The music on v2 movie styled and the booklet places the story to the movie. Since when you wrote about this you havn't heard the CD so it won't make any sense at all.

6) Info's.
AS you say the info is on the remix64 website, no point in repeating whats there in the booklet. The CD page is an addition to the booklet with all info's there which are relevent. We created that page cos we could make a more detailed analysis of everything. Putting this sort of information in the booklet would have made it much briefer. Our idea is that you can learn much more by reading a proper account of the CD from the website instead of tiny snippits.

7) It's not your cup of tea

Strange, sounds like you've made your mind up about the CD before listening to it. Even more strange is that the booklet tries to involve you more with the music. The stories are part of the experience, you should listen to the CD and read the stories simultanously. Somehow then this meaningless stuff then makes sense.

Posted: 24/12/2003 - 23:34
by weblaus
Tas wrote:I find most of your coments a bit odd, but non-the-less i respect your view.
I'll try to clarify my thoughts by commenting on your comments:
1) The change of booklet cover

As you say unforseen circumstances made the change.

2) The idea of getting it outside the Scene

It's simply not gonna happen... I've argued to myself that it's possible, but i'm just fooling myself to think otherwise. Circumstances changed, noticing this is a c64 product afterall i found if i made it not look like a c64 product then the result would be counter productive.
Fair enough, given that change of focus I think the cover is a reasonable choice. I still have to say I preferred the first one as I'm partial to simple/stylish covers (I liked the cover design of e.g Galway Remixed or Instant Remedy a lot), but with the C64 fans in mind as the main target group, the current cover is alright. As I said, I thought the goal was to get "outsiders" to buy it, which of course in this case isn't applicable anymore.
3) PPOT v Remix64

I'm not gonna coment, as the feel of ppot's is completely different to remix64. From what i have seen PPOT's booklet is humorous and at times so is the music where remix64 is very serious.
That's true, and I guess this could be a very intresting debate about what approach is more successful, but that's something different indeed.
4) Geeky look

Strange how you like the icons, but not the cover as they are basically more often than not snipits of the front cover. How you like one set and find the other set geeky is a bit strange.
Well, once again, I was of the belief that the former goal of reaching non-C64-fans was still applicable. I consider myself a big C64 geek, so I'm likely to like the icons bits, which I think work fine in that regard. Apart from that, I feel that little things inside of the booklet are much less inm-your-face as a whole cover, but again, that whole point is kind of moot due to the sort of changed target group.
5) Stories.

They are scene setting stories, the stories help set the scene of the each individual track. The idea is that if you read the booklet while listening to each track then it helps paint a picture of what the track is about. The music on v2 movie styled and the booklet places the story to the movie. Since when you wrote about this you havn't heard the CD so it won't make any sense at all.
By now I've listened to the CD as a whole, and while I appreciate the professional work done by the arrangers, I sadly still aren't too fond of the results - I'll be honest and say that part of this is likely due to the (for me) very obscure selection of tracks and the rather drastic re-interpratations some of the more well-known songs received.

Anyway, since the whole story idea is again mentioned in point 7, I'll put all my thoughts about that particular subject down there.
6) Info's.
AS you say the info is on the remix64 website, no point in repeating whats there in the booklet. The CD page is an addition to the booklet with all info's there which are relevent. We created that page cos we could make a more detailed analysis of everything. Putting this sort of information in the booklet would have made it much briefer. Our idea is that you can learn much more by reading a proper account of the CD from the website instead of tiny snippits.
I understand your idea, but I'll have to point out that I find it unlikely that every listener is sitting in front of a computer when the CD is playing..
7) It's not your cup of tea

Strange, sounds like you've made your mind up about the CD before listening to it. Even more strange is that the booklet tries to involve you more with the music. The stories are part of the experience, you should listen to the CD and read the stories simultanously. Somehow then this meaningless stuff then makes sense
.

I'll admit that my initial impressions of the CD were based on the MP3s from the website, but that's why I explicitely not talked about the musical content in my prior post.

As for the stories being part of the experience, I'm sorry to say, but this just doesn't work for me. I now have read the excerpts next to the music and most of the time I still wonder what it's all about. Especially on tracks I can associate with the games they're part of, even if the actual music deosn't sound very familiar anymore.

I'm a strong believer in the idea that music should be able to stand on its own without the need of explanations of what it should invoke in me - that's why I often feel soundtracks fall flat unless you explicitely remember the connected movie-scenes and why I thought the whole storyline thing from BIT3 was kind of pointless (something I believe I've even argued about a bit with Chris, who obviously has a whole different point of view).

Again, this post is not intended at all as an attack, but rather is to express my (most likely not shared by many others) opinion. And despite my personal lack of enthusiasm, I still wish you all the sales success in the world for the CD, in the hope that there might be another one coming up that I'll enjoy more (that's selfish, I know, but hopefully not unreasonably so).

Posted: 25/12/2003 - 0:18
by tas
Weblaus....

Thanks for these coments, it's an ineresting discussion :)
By now I've listened to the CD as a whole, and while I appreciate the professional work done by the arrangers, I sadly still aren't too fond of the results - I'll be honest and say that part of this is likely due to the (for me) very obscure selection of tracks and the rather drastic re-interpratations some of the more well-known songs received.
I've said right from the start that this is no retro CD. This is a more musical experience. Those who like their music pure or very close to the original maybe will have difficulty settling with the CD. Those who maybe like what i call Creative music should enjoy the CD. The key to v2 is basically to try and ignore that it's a remix CD. Imagine it's a whole new thing with heavy references to the SID. If you can forget the original and look at the CD for it's musical prowess and try to open your mind a little you'll appreciate it. Yes, It's way different to any other remix CD on the market. Look at the remixes not as remixes, but look at them as a re-invention. The obscure selection isn't so obscure when you actually look at the CD's ideals rather than looking at it as a remix.


As for the stories being part of the experience, I'm sorry to say, but this just doesn't work for me. I now have read the excerpts next to the music and most of the time I still wonder what it's all about. Especially on tracks I can associate with the games they're part of, even if the actual music deosn't sound very familiar anymore.
one word: RETRO! Remix64 v2 isn't RETRO! it's a fresh experience. If you want retro listen to the sids. Your associating the tracks with the games and it's original feel. THATS BAD! because remix64 isn't trying to give that type of feel.


I'm a strong believer in the idea that music should be able to stand on its own without the need of explanations of what it should invoke in me - that's why I often feel soundtracks fall flat unless you explicitely remember the connected movie-scenes and why I thought the whole storyline thing from BIT3 was kind of pointless (something I believe I've even argued about a bit with Chris, who obviously has a whole different point of view).
I'm a strong believer in that too. The option is there tho if you want to get into our thoughts of how we interperated the music. Your free to read these stories to see just what we was thinking when creating the music. In a way it's a story of how we looked into the tracks and how they were made, but in story form. By reading the stories you get the picture of what we was trying to achieve. We are not telling you to think how we think, we are painting a picture and setting a scene on how the music was envisioned. You don't need to read the stories if you do not wish to. Remix64's v's BIT3 is something different, our stories may not follow the same ideals as bit3 shared. Even tho the concept looks simular, the real aspect is worlds apart.

Your words have actually underlined my fear on how i thought a small minority would have thought. The key to remix64 is not to look at it as a RETRO CD, but as a REMIX CD (in the true sense of the word). Don't think 80's, think 2000's.

Posted: 25/12/2003 - 0:29
by Chris Abbott
<<<
I've said right from the start that this is no retro CD. This is a more musical experience. Those who like their music pure or very close to the original maybe will have difficulty settling with the CD. Those who maybe like what i call Creative music should enjoy the CD. The key to v2 is basically to try and ignore that it's a remix CD. Imagine it's a whole new thing with heavy references to the SID. If you can forget the original and look at the CD for it's musical prowess and try to open your mind a little you'll appreciate it. Yes, It's way different to any other remix CD on the market. Look at the remixes not as remixes, but look at them as a re-invention. The obscure selection isn't so obscure when you actually look at the CD's ideals rather than looking at it as a remix.
>>>
Heh, this ENTIRE paragraph could apply to Crystal Dreamscapes without modification (except the name of the Cd, obviously)! That tickles me slightly :)

Chris

Posted: 25/12/2003 - 0:49
by tas
Oh, and to your words abut remix64 v3 and hopefully you'll like it. Sorry to say, unless someone takes over the series then there isn't going to be a v3. for the following reasons:

1) Finally accomplished what i wanted to achieve.

2) The small market doesn't warrent another 1 to 1.5 years of sleepless nights and hard work.

3) I need new challenges. You'll see these new challenges in 2004 (NOT REMIX RELATED)

4) Working with a small budget i don't think i can improve remix64 any further without the aid of bigger investment.

5) I just can't get enthusiastic about the thought of a v3.

Posted: 25/12/2003 - 2:05
by Markus Schneider
...that's why I often feel soundtracks fall flat unless you explicitely remember the connected movie-scenes
Well, I am sorry to hear you are not keen on V2 since I am.
But it looks like it might be your mental attitude to soundtracks at all.
If film scores (not themes) does sound good its more an accident. It's not intended to get that what you expect. It's intended to underline the pictures and create a special mood. It doesn't fit alone for BOTH. Further most people could not assign a picture to the music but a music to a picture sequence (which is often produced using leitmotiv - tam ta ta ta tam for the Empire in Star Wars e.g.). This means that the music is more important than the picture ? Well, probably not, but I still think a film's success is dependent from the music. While other countries are very conservative in scoring dominant music, Hollywood did it right imho. E.g. a usual german film gets about 20 min music while a hollywood film gets 70min. Seems to be a major difference, isn't it. Is it a coincidence that the most successful german films had a full orchestrated dominating score ? (Das Boot und Die unendliche Geschichte) Well I am sure not.
But back to the roots. If you listen to Remix V2 and you don't create imaginations to something it seems you've a lack of creativity or we are failed in total. You listen to Iron Lord and don't fell into a knighty scene ? You listen to Stormlord and don't fell into an epic LOTR like scene ?

Then it might be you wait for the music to give you a relationship (like a SID) ?! Just try to use the music to create your own.

Posted: 25/12/2003 - 11:49
by Chris Abbott
> I thought the whole storyline thing from BIT3 was kind of pointless
Heh... not pointless... merely optional ;)

Chris