Commodore Remix

Yes I would think so - but Vice cant mute channels ? (well the windows one cant)

StuC_Ovine wrote:Yes I would think so - but Vice cant mute channels ? (well the windows one cant)

Just have a rummage around in the code using an AR cart or something similar

Im on it.

I'm up for it in a fiddle sort of way. To save time, someone send me the dots and I'll just play it

here's a w.i.p of it so far -

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5_XF8rRzLhQ

aaaaaaaaaaamazing!
this will be a great "remix"

Well - I have to say that looks awesome Smila.
EDIT : I should really give Stu some credit also - it's great.

I'm sure others will agree and if this doesn't get the creative juices flowing I don't know what will. We now need some clever boffin to figure out the best way to get some midi and bpm data worked out so we can all (and yes, that includes me unfortunately) get down to making some music for remix-e-load.

We now have Mark keen to do some fiddle work along with a host of other excellent remixers, this could be one of the greatest project at R64 ever (well, since the last one anyway)

I'm sure other ideas will flow once music starts being produced (such as an ability to 'remember' or 'program' your favourite remixer styles for a unique remix of your own).

From little acorns eh ?

tomsk wrote:We now need some clever boffin to figure out the best way to get some midi and bpm data worked out so we can all (and yes, that includes me unfortunately) get down to making some music for remix-e-load.

Well, after this post I thought I would have another look at this to see if I could figure out how Meeester Hubbard produced his little loader and it turns out to be pretty simple albeit not ideal for remixing. First of all from what I can make out the SID runs at 113.820 BPM - I figured this out by exporting sub tunes as WAV files trimming them and using the Auto Region feature in Sound Forge (I love this feature of Sound forge!) - I am guessing this is just some mathematical reality of Rob's player in a 50hz environment or some timing error in SIDPlay1/w but anyway the SID is roughly 114 BPM.

Now the key to understanding how this thing works is the Lead and the fact that everything is based around 2 bar sequences (i.e 8 beats per sequence). Each of the different leads has 7 different 2 bar sequences depending on key. There are 7 keys used which are G-2, G#2, A#2, C3, D3, D#3, F3. I have included 6 of the leads in the archive as including the MAINSHUM seemed pointless seeing it's just one long 8 bar note for the given key. So, the archive contains the various 8 bar sequences for FUNKY, BOUNCE and ARPEGGIO and each MIDI file also contains the key note associated with the sequence just for reference.

The Bass line simply follows the selected key of the lead and again the archive contains VLTONE, TERENDY, NOLANS, LEVEL43 and SPACIAL all in the key of C as an example. Obviously they would need to be transposed to match the key of the lead. BLAHBLAH is again missing as this is just one long 2 bar note.

The Drums are included as 2 bar WAV loops as having them as midi seemed pointless. Again WHINE is not included as it's just a really annoying 2 bar C6 whine (oooh fucking well done!). There is one special drum preset which is DEPECHE - when selected in the intro it basically Ring Mods itself to the lead channel (1) - the archive just contains an example of it running with the MAINSHUM lead running in the key of G.

As you can probably tell apart from the 2 bar lead sequences there is no real structure to any of the parts as everything is simply randomly selected based on the lead sequences so how we make remixes of this I am not entirely sure. I am not very good with musical theory so i cannot see any relevance of the 7 key notes that Rob choose but they definitely do seem to all work together as random progressions so maybe we simply follow the same idea but in addition to the 4 leads, 5 bass and 4 drums he came up with we make our own 8 bar sequences for each of the 7 key notes? This of course depends on whether we can code this into the demo somehow?

Anyhooo, I hope this helps? Show's you how clever both musically and technically that Rob fellow was aye?
Regs
Skitz

Hiya,

I thought I would go back to the original post and pickup some points Tomsk made originally.

tomsk wrote:Well you could try this. Instead of trying to remix a choice of sections, it could be reMADE with modern instruments. Get some code hog to put it all together and a graphics whizz to knock up some legendary logo.
Invite all of the top remixers to remake sections and possibly add new bass lines, drums , etc. For example - you could have the lead done by Romeo Knight, the Bass by Lman, and the drums by Infamous or you could have lead by Mad Fiddler, Bass by Makke and drums by Rauli........... you get the idea.

Well hopefully understood my previous post about how Mr Rob Hubbard put this together and all have the MIDI / WAV files?

Having woken up at a ridiculous hour today (5am!) and not being able to get back to bed I sparked up my PC and played around some more on this one just trying to figure out how best we might approach this and I came up with this approach and depending on how clever our coder(s) are on this it could in fact be a framework of some kind where additional parts could be added as packs (i.e. LEAD pack, BASS pack, DRUM pack) at any point just by adding them to the required folder This way anybody can produce packs for the demo and just load them up!

I guess the first thing to decide on is the "format" we want to make the various sequences and I think realistically we are talking about some form of "audio" format which can be looped easily. I think this rules out MP3's as they don't tend to loop very well so it would either be OGG or WAV files - I guess this needs to be decided by whoever our coders as to what they could handle?

Anyhoo, as an experiment I took the Funky Lead, Level43 Bass and Bonham Drums and tried this out. I just basically took the various MIDI files and replaced them with softsynth's and exported each 2 bar sequences as WAV files. I then took those WAV files and randomly placed them into a play-list to emulate the intro. Here are the WAV files and the test MP3.

http://www.djskitz.com/delta/Funky-Level43-Bonham.rar

Taking it one step further I took the Arpeggio Lead, The R1D1 Basee and the Funky Drummer loop and did the same thing ending up with this

http://www.djskitz.com/delta/Arp-R1D1-FunkyDrummer.rar

Obviously a lot of things need to be defined before we start actually remixing and the 2 bar sequence limitation and complete randomness of the song structure is going to be a fairly major limiting factor unless somebody else has any other ideas?

One last things is that unless we can apply FX to the Lead Part in real-time then I guess this would have to be dropped as an option in the demo but at the end of the day the FX in the demo are pretty pants anyway!

So, what do you all think?

woooooop - man thats sweeeeet

Cracking work so far.

Music formats :-

Id prefer the files not to be MIDI, sampling them and outputting them as OGG or WAV is the way to go. You guys know more about whats best but I have had no problems with OGG in the past.

The music system I use is called BASS (http://www.un4seen.co.uk/bass.html) which can handle almost anything you throw at it.

I can easily structure a "remake pack" of the sounds etc so anyone can create a new pack. This can be as simple as supplying the folder structure so that the samples can be placed in the correct order, the user ZIPS this up and distributes it. I'll get the exe to read directly from the zip file to save space etc.

At this point should we move this conversation somewhere more private or should we continue this project in the public eye?

Who wants to be involved?

StuC_Ovine wrote:Music formats :-

Id prefer the files not to be MIDI, sampling them and outputting them as OGG or WAV is the way to go. You guys know more about whats best but I have had no problems with OGG in the past.

The music system I use is called BASS (http://www.un4seen.co.uk/bass.html) which can handle almost anything you throw at it.

I can easily structure a "remake pack" of the sounds etc so anyone can create a new pack. This can be as simple as supplying the folder structure so that the samples can be placed in the correct order, the user ZIPS this up and distributes it. I'll get the exe to read directly from the zip file to save space etc.

If you are familiar with the BASS audio library then I think we are more than covered. I think we should however just stick with either WAV or OGG files to make life simple for you.

I guess the most important thing here is that you packs follow a standard naming format that you can work with. I am thinking something like this:

bin\ - location of demo
bin\packs\ - location of packs
bin\packs\lead-[name of pack].zip
bin\packs\bass-[name of pack].zip
bin\packs\drum-[name of pack].zip

so for the basic original sequences we would have the following "packs":

lead-mainshum.zip
lead-funky.zip
lead-bounce.zip
lead-arpeggio.zip
bass-blahblah.zip
bass-vltone.zip
bass-terendy.zip
bass-nolans.zip
bass-level43.zip
bass-spacial.zip
drum-whine.zip
drum-bonham.zip
drum-depeche.zip
drum-rumba.zip
drum-march.zip

The content of these files will be consistent too for example lead-g2.wav,lead-c2.ogg,etc so a basic check can be performed for missing content.

If you like I can produce these files so we have something to work with?

Sounds ideal.

I would suggest a small change to the structure tho. Take the name of pack from the filename and move it to a folder instead.

bin\ - location of demo
bin\packs\name of pack\
bin\packs\name of pack\lead.zip
bin\packs\name of pack\bass.zip

WIll make it easier to determine what packs are installed plus the user needs only to pack the folder containing their work rather than to select file names.

and yea... if you supply the first versions - gives people something to work from (structure etc)

This is an good idéa to be able to do packs for this "remix session"
Using let say a drum pack from Infamous and hear how a bass pack from dafunk will sound together and so on

I'm in and up for some sequencing