Commodore Remix

Razmo wrote: I'm not talking about paying for the Remix64 message board... I'm talking about paying a subscription for being able to download at RKO... RKO is the competition and the main reason in my belief that noone will buy from C64audio, and the only reason RKO is allowed is because Chris let it be legal... the interrests he has signed to nurse the authors interrests is making it harder for him, when RKO is free... I guess...

now don't get me wrong!... I'd surely prefer if RKO was free... but if the scene will die out if this combination continue to exist, then what can we do to save the scene but to pay for downloading at RKO!?

What about some suggestions at this instead of just dissing the ones being presented?

I must have misinterpreted you then, my bad.

As for the subscription fee i'm still not too sure that is the answer.
I would like a poll or something like that to determine what's stopping people from paying for the music.
Do we know for a fact that RKO is the problem?

As for suggestions, I'm fresh out of them. I've stated the reason why I'm not buying above and that's not Chrises or anyone elses fault really.
I can't really see a reason not to buy CDs if you like the music, I know I would.

If RKO IS the problem then I guess you'd need to make AR payware too because there are amiga remix cds in the shop too.
I'm not sure about the impact that would have on RKO or AR but the latter one is sure to suffer more from it.

Again I'm sorry I cannot be more constructive but as mentioned before, I really don't understand why noone is buying.

Razmo wrote:And what about expanding the scene to incorporate not just C64 tunes, but also AMIGA, FM Chip tunes and original work of the artists that remix also? ... afterall we are a part of a much greater community, namely the whole darn demo-scene, that relate to anything in the 8-bit scene and even 16-bit really. Or should I call it the "Nerd Era"?... guess this is what makes the "normal" listener scared of the music.

Now there's an idea that might work. Not sure about the economical gains but it's an interesting thought imho.

Er, I've already started stocking a wider range of music (see Markus Siebold's album, Trace's album is coming soon, Tonka's album is original stuff..., Eclipse of Mars...)

Even if the composers didn't want any royalties at all, music would still cost money, since there's the performers to consider, government taxes, webhosting costs, ISP costs, phone costs, accounting costs (£1000 per year). but it's not a question of the composers standing over my shoulders demanding their money (although as they get older, that might happen more and more, and with good reason), but because they deserve the money. I've never got the mindset that thinks it wants Rob Hubbard's babies, but begrudges him royalties for a track. It's especially true in the case of most C64 composers because they're ordinary guys who need resources like anyone else: and should be allowed to capitalise on previous hard work without people trying to steal it from them.

As for the suggestions, it's probably presumptuous to discuss what Jan "should" be doing, since it's his site, and he's not currently here. Plus I know for a fact that any hint of being told what to do by Random Q. Hacker would make his hackles rise

There seems to be a crisis here, but it's not going to be solved in this thread. We probably need a bit of a discussion in the inner circle.

Chris

Weather or not the fault is at RKO (competition) I'm not sure either, but if sales has been better before 2002, there must be some explanation... and one COULD be, that the quality has improved dramatically in the free section (RKO)... because it HAS! ... now I cannot speak for others for the reason noone is buing, only myself. Actually I don't buy much music at all... I have a very different approach at music i believe... if I buy something it's because it's timeless and I know I'll be listening to the music again and again for all time... I'm really a penny pincher when it comes to paying for something I'll listen to for a month, and then have it stand on the shelf to collect dust, and this goues for ALL music, not just C64 remixes... but please don't think everyone is like me... hopefuly not! I'm just suffering from environmental damage being a musician myself ... but I love the scene enough to break that rule of mine to save the scene...

but to put it another way: I need to know what toe hurts, to prevent stepping on it... and until now, I did not know it was this bad.

Chris Abbott wrote:Er, I've already started stocking a wider range of music (see Markus Siebold's album, Trace's album is coming soon, Tonka's album is original stuff..., Eclipse of Mars...)

Even if the composers didn't want any royalties at all, music would still cost money, since there's the performers to consider, government taxes, webhosting costs, ISP costs, phone costs, accounting costs (£1000 per year). but it's not a question of the composers standing over my shoulders demanding their money (although as they get older, that might happen more and more, and with good reason), but because they deserve the money. I've never got the mindset that thinks it wants Rob Hubbard's babies, but begrudges him royalties for a track. It's especially true in the case of most C64 composers because they're ordinary guys who need resources like anyone else: and should be allowed to capitalise on previous hard work without people trying to steal it from them.

As for the suggestions, it's probably presumptuous to discuss what Jan "should" be doing, since it's his site, and he's not currently here. Plus I know for a fact that any hint of being told what to do by Random Q. Hacker would make his hackles rise

There seems to be a crisis here, but it's not going to be solved in this thread. We probably need a bit of a discussion in the inner circle.

Chris

The inner circle!? ... to me that sounds like you want to remedy your problems without the help of the rest of us? ... why?... why is it so bad to make the problem open to the rest of us? someone might be able to help!? maybe it would be a good idear to start doing some research among all of us in the scene... ask questions and get a better feel of what may be the reason for the lack of interrest, and what we might be willing to do, to save the scene from certain death.

And maybe Jan is a stubborn person ... (like the rest of us probably ), but if his site is threatened by the current state of the scene, even he will have to take precausions to not have this happen would he not?

In the end, the problem with this is that the original authors want compensation for their hard work as you write (with absolutely full reason!!!!!!)... I'd say that a solution to "feed the lions" would be the way to go, if the scene is to be saved... any other profit thinking in bigger terms could be attacked after that.

Because everyone involved would probably be more comfortable talking around this in private, not in public. It's nice that everyone wants to get involved, but public discussions tend to polarise fairly quickly, and it's a lot easier to sort stuff out when there isn't an audience: and the signal/noise ratio is greater, and people who don't like some of the participants don't get ammunition.

Chris

Chris Abbott wrote:Because everyone involved would probably be more comfortable talking around this in private, not in public. It's nice that everyone wants to get involved, but public discussions tend to polarise fairly quickly, and it's a lot easier to sort stuff out when there isn't an audience: and the signal/noise ratio is greater, and people who don't like some of the participants don't get ammunition.

Chris

Then please don't put words in the rest of the community's mouth by stating that we are not willing to pay and buy your CD's, when you do not want to tell us about the problems Chris... I think that more people in here are unaware of the state of the scene than you might think... and I can tell you that you got me worried with this "partly opening" of the problem to the scene members. I'm definitely more focused on purchasing at C64audio now that I know the cold facts of it all... I'm just saying that many others may be in the same situation as me here, and that MAYBE everything is not as bad when things got cleared up...

Now I understand that yuo might want an inner discusion first... fair enough, but i think yu'll be able to benefit from doing a bit of research openly in the scene as well...

I dont think this thread as a negative thing at all, its good to have open discussion and take suggestions, you never know when the next great idea will come from.

One thing to note.... Slay Radio Listener ship has risen greatly from a previous thread I read on here, maybe with all those ears, a bit of advertising there would help the situation?

Slaygon has kindly agreed to let me have a banner on the front page where the Google ads are, for which I'm very grateful. It might be a sticking plaster on the real problems, but any help is invaluable at the moment.

As for the discussion: these are sensitive times. Feel free to continue to brainstorm: but this is why very few "business" meetings happen in public: because it's just more effective that way. It makes me uncomfortable even discussing it here, since it presumes that everyone else agrees there's even a problem. And frankly, I've already made enough of a fool of myself here.

Chris

Analog X: now that's a good idear! ... but also letting the whole scene know the severity of this would be a good thing! ... now for example; I've got a subscription to a Danish music site as well, where I've posted two C64 remixes also available at RKO... and I've linked to RKO there as well with recommandations... I think many of us here have other channels of exposure as well, and it would be minimal effort to "speak the word" and get more attention. Links from our MySpace and YouTube accounts would help out as well...

Maybe It'll be a good idear to remember a link to C64ausio as well...

what I'm trying to say here is that for us to take such steps serious, we at least need to know the impotance of it first, and I did not believe it was so bad with the scenes state until now!

Razmo wrote:and I did not believe it was so bad with the scenes state until now!

I'm not one for washing dirty linen in public. As I said, it's embarrassing to even be seen to be this pathetic.

Chris

Damn you Chris! there is no reason to be embarrased by this! ... it's your duty to tell the scene such stuff, so that we might act against it! ... sometimes you need to reach out for help... After reading several posts from you, and even having hot discussions with you, I've learne the hard way what you are doing for the community here, but if you do not reach out when time is bad, we won't be able to do anything for you (and ourselves in the end)... right?

But I can picture how it must feel to be the one fighting a lone battle, while the rest of the "gang" are having a ball! ... cause this is what you're feeling right? ... it's like being the arranger of the party who constantly run around to please everyone and nobody see your frustration until you sit down and say HALT! ... and then everyone blame you for spoiling the mood...

Guess it's time to act WITH the scene, instead of FOR the scene don't you think?

Razmo wrote:But I can picture how it must feel to be the one fighting a lone battle, while the rest of the "gang" are having a ball! ... cause this is what you're feeling right? ... it's like being the arranger of the party who constantly run around to please everyone and nobody see your frustration until you sit down and say HALT! ... and then everyone blame you for spoiling the mood...

Guess it's time to act WITH the scene, instead of FOR the scene don't you think?

Hmm, well, it would be a bit self-indulgent to think I'm the only one fighting battles: I know that Remix64, RKO, Slay and AR all take their toll on their webmasters, for various reasons. But as BIT Live organiser, the party thing happened to me more than once

Chris

Chris: well... I do not have the funds to purchase anything at the moment unfortunately but I'll be looking into it as soon as I've got a few bucks to spend... most likely next month, but I alone can't change the direction of the wind... more sceners will need to know about this. ... as a few have already said in this thread; they just have not gotten at it yet... it seems like it's not the will that lacks...