If there's a form for requests you could influence the stream of remixes in your direction by submission of requests, detailed requests where the name, composer name, style, desc., remix reason, remix approaches are included.
How's that sound?
Request: The ability to request.
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Paul Vanukoff
- Moderator
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 24/02/2003 - 16:31
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
I think its too informal. Say I'm Joe Remixer, I want to remix some tune. Now I have to browse archives to see what people want to hear? I'd rather have that remixers can see detailed descriptions of every request; as opposed to a forum, the service will stimulate more input because of the very pressense of the form and then it will be possible to do various statistics on the submissions. Further, using the number of requests for a remix and the number of prior remixes, you can stimulate that there are fewer "holes" in the collection of remixes.
Request Form
user: John Doe
Input
name: Stardust
who: Rib
what: Techno
where: link
Output
who: who could/should do this remix, in your oppinion; who not...
what: what should this remix turn out to be, what style; what not...
why: why do this remix; why not
A somewhat thin list of input, but all I could think of right now.
In the deeper future it would be cool with some kind of metadata extraction tool for mods. There are probably tools for the amiga to create text files with info about mods but we should have platform independent tools that extract data and store it in XML; most importantly pattern data and of course the metadata of the mod; like who made it, when and what's the name of it. If some tool like that were made then people could create their own databases and then exchange information between them using the XML format with very little trouble. The pattern data could perhaps be linked and perhaps equalities could be mechanically deduced so that one could traverse autogenerated HTML pages with hyperlinks between patterns that are similar. And so on. As time passes, the tool should adopt more and more input formats, using plugins, so that it can recognize everything between SID and MP3.
Even deeper into the future we should be able to copy the pattern data directly from the home page and paste it into our favourite sequencer, but we'll have to do with a midi export option in the tool and links to those midi files associated with every pattern. I have thought about contacting the author of 2midi and sid2midi but haven't got around to it yet. I hope he would see the potential impact of such a tool.
Request Form
user: John Doe
Input
name: Stardust
who: Rib
what: Techno
where: link
Output
who: who could/should do this remix, in your oppinion; who not...
what: what should this remix turn out to be, what style; what not...
why: why do this remix; why not
A somewhat thin list of input, but all I could think of right now.
In the deeper future it would be cool with some kind of metadata extraction tool for mods. There are probably tools for the amiga to create text files with info about mods but we should have platform independent tools that extract data and store it in XML; most importantly pattern data and of course the metadata of the mod; like who made it, when and what's the name of it. If some tool like that were made then people could create their own databases and then exchange information between them using the XML format with very little trouble. The pattern data could perhaps be linked and perhaps equalities could be mechanically deduced so that one could traverse autogenerated HTML pages with hyperlinks between patterns that are similar. And so on. As time passes, the tool should adopt more and more input formats, using plugins, so that it can recognize everything between SID and MP3.
Even deeper into the future we should be able to copy the pattern data directly from the home page and paste it into our favourite sequencer, but we'll have to do with a midi export option in the tool and links to those midi files associated with every pattern. I have thought about contacting the author of 2midi and sid2midi but haven't got around to it yet. I hope he would see the potential impact of such a tool.
Doesn't look feasible, IMO. The original musics don't have unique names. It would only be extra work for someone to maintain such a database. The "Remix Suggestions" board should be flooded with requests before someone decided to think about a separate request-system. Btw, the message board is more flexible.
Apart from that, I think that in the past remixes on request have not worked well. Musicians should remix what they like and what they find remixable. Not what some people would like to hear. The you-asked-for-it-there-you-are concept bears the risk of flooding the scene with average or uninspired remixes.
Suggestion should be posted in the message board, where everyone (including the remixers themselves) could discuss it and exchange links and ideas.
Apart from that, I think that in the past remixes on request have not worked well. Musicians should remix what they like and what they find remixable. Not what some people would like to hear. The you-asked-for-it-there-you-are concept bears the risk of flooding the scene with average or uninspired remixes.
Suggestion should be posted in the message board, where everyone (including the remixers themselves) could discuss it and exchange links and ideas.
i have to agree here with michael, it's a nice idea, but just isn't feasable. even the messageboard at remix64 hasn't met it's objectives.
if you look at suggestions and how many people have taken them suggestions and made a remix based upon that input, well the response as been minimal.
if it was working then i'd say yes, you have a valid point, but it's not been as effective as i thought it might, so it's not really a feasable or workable area.
if you look at suggestions and how many people have taken them suggestions and made a remix based upon that input, well the response as been minimal.
if it was working then i'd say yes, you have a valid point, but it's not been as effective as i thought it might, so it's not really a feasable or workable area.
There may not always be unique names, but there are mostly different names. For the indifferent names, the names can be changed over time by users - not a single person.
I don't think there's any particular reason to wait for the messageboard to be heavily used. In fact I'm not sure how many non musicians read these message boards. I do, but many don't - they see the remix pages where the downloads are, and that's a pretty good place to put remix request forms.
I also don't think the message board is particularly more flexible, or at least a request form could have its its own discussion thread. But if not, there's still the forum for those that don't want to use it. Some will, some wohn't. To be able to systemize requests and use database capabilities on it is very appealing to me at least.
Should the musician have total freedom? Yes, let the musician do what s/he wants to do, but also realize that he doesn't "uninspired" by reading a request - he might just be inspired. The system can be used to stimulate that cool unremixed tunes get remixed, I think that's a worthy cause, who has any kind of overview of that as of now?
Anyway, the idea is here but perhaps it will die of itself.
I also like my second idea better.
I don't think there's any particular reason to wait for the messageboard to be heavily used. In fact I'm not sure how many non musicians read these message boards. I do, but many don't - they see the remix pages where the downloads are, and that's a pretty good place to put remix request forms.
I also don't think the message board is particularly more flexible, or at least a request form could have its its own discussion thread. But if not, there's still the forum for those that don't want to use it. Some will, some wohn't. To be able to systemize requests and use database capabilities on it is very appealing to me at least.
Should the musician have total freedom? Yes, let the musician do what s/he wants to do, but also realize that he doesn't "uninspired" by reading a request - he might just be inspired. The system can be used to stimulate that cool unremixed tunes get remixed, I think that's a worthy cause, who has any kind of overview of that as of now?
Anyway, the idea is here but perhaps it will die of itself.
I also like my second idea better.-
Paul Vanukoff
- Moderator
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 24/02/2003 - 16:31
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
I agree with Neil and Michael on this. Just not feasible really. Even if someone had the time and inclination to set it up (and manage it over time), I don't really think it would really provide much benefit. Maybe some, but the work needed to put into it would be more than it is worth IMO. In the end, a remixer is going to remix what he/she wants and when he/she wants to do it.
Nice idea in theory, just not practical methinks.
Nice idea in theory, just not practical methinks.
Paul Vanukoff
(taking off the gloves) "well we'll see 'bout that!" nah, perhaps you guys are right, but it neither seems like much work nor does it imply that it is the non-musicians that make the requests - it can in fact be a log of remixers requests to remixers, i.e. "I think this'n that should be remixed, but I only got the time for that", then some other remixer could pick it up "yes, that's an interesting song and new territory"...
Another feature that could be made independently of the request system (but with much less success) is to make a ranking of songs that have been remixed the least (i.e. typically not.) Combined with the request system it would be more potent but that ideas is apparently DOA.
nah, perhaps you guys are right, but it neither seems like much work nor does it imply that it is the non-musicians that make the requests - it can in fact be a log of remixers requests to remixers, i.e. "I think this'n that should be remixed, but I only got the time for that", then some other remixer could pick it up "yes, that's an interesting song and new territory"...Another feature that could be made independently of the request system (but with much less success) is to make a ranking of songs that have been remixed the least (i.e. typically not.) Combined with the request system it would be more potent but that ideas is apparently DOA.
we often get non musicians to the site at remix64 and to the commodore forum, we even built a special forum dedicated to non musicians before came the commodore forum. It now doesn't exist as it flopped.
We try to incourage none musicians to the site quite frequently, thinking of stuff which might help. however with little luck, the ratio seems to be 70% musicians 30% non musicians at a glimpse
i'll keep thinking of stuff, i'll not be defeated
ofcourse this is part of a bigger problem really, we need to get this sort of music out to the non comunity, doing that isn't as easy as it sounds. there's plenty of people out there that would love this scene, it's just getting the message across.
Neil
We try to incourage none musicians to the site quite frequently, thinking of stuff which might help. however with little luck, the ratio seems to be 70% musicians 30% non musicians at a glimpse
i'll keep thinking of stuff, i'll not be defeated
ofcourse this is part of a bigger problem really, we need to get this sort of music out to the non comunity, doing that isn't as easy as it sounds. there's plenty of people out there that would love this scene, it's just getting the message across.
Neil
These back in time live events etc. may help with that. I've never been to one myself but it oughta make some folks curious. Yes, there are a great potential for more people to get involved - after all, who do not remember the old c64 or the amiga.
You know what, I just got an idea: why hasn't anyone produced a real c64 music video? That would be awesome - some high-tech video, a mix of video and 3d graphics that is made to look primitive (if you've seen the videogame episode of futurama you know what I mean - its the episode where they got on the internet and are attackked by flying commercials.) A c64 music video might be a good project for a wilddemo competition as well. Hmm...
Yes, there are a great potential for more people to get involved - after all, who do not remember the old c64 or the amiga.You know what, I just got an idea: why hasn't anyone produced a real c64 music video? That would be awesome - some high-tech video, a mix of video and 3d graphics that is made to look primitive (if you've seen the videogame episode of futurama you know what I mean - its the episode where they got on the internet and are attackked by flying commercials.) A c64 music video might be a good project for a wilddemo competition as well. Hmm...
again, it's not about what you do, it's about getting the message across. The back in time live events are groundbreaking yes, but only the faithful are aware of this, media by and large are not interested (some exceptions).
example, the boyband video is absolutely class, but how do you go about getting it played over the TV? quite simply you can't!! why? because it's not big time stuff, people are unaware and ofcourse they never will be because the TV isn't interested...
catch 22!
if there was a way to break that barrier if some TV station would actually break the mold, and be a little more diverse then we'd be getting somewhere. I have helped with an article for record collector sometime back, and although it's not on a list of their priorities i do feel that sometime in the future there could be an article about the scene, just when that happens is anyones guess.
i'm hoping they do eventually put the article within the magazine, as it's the biggest music magazine in the uk and might get some of the message across to non c64 enthusiasts and more to music lovers.
With the latest CD, i'm also trying to break that boundry by creating a more creative CD with own ideas being involved, and giving the CD more of a musical creativeness than a pure and simple remix CD. again it's a small step, but i think it's the right direction.
example, the boyband video is absolutely class, but how do you go about getting it played over the TV? quite simply you can't!! why? because it's not big time stuff, people are unaware and ofcourse they never will be because the TV isn't interested...
catch 22!
if there was a way to break that barrier if some TV station would actually break the mold, and be a little more diverse then we'd be getting somewhere. I have helped with an article for record collector sometime back, and although it's not on a list of their priorities i do feel that sometime in the future there could be an article about the scene, just when that happens is anyones guess.
i'm hoping they do eventually put the article within the magazine, as it's the biggest music magazine in the uk and might get some of the message across to non c64 enthusiasts and more to music lovers.
With the latest CD, i'm also trying to break that boundry by creating a more creative CD with own ideas being involved, and giving the CD more of a musical creativeness than a pure and simple remix CD. again it's a small step, but i think it's the right direction.